CSN ruined by overrated Young?

[Big Generator]

Re: CSN ruined by overrated Canadian?

Well, for those of you who agree with this thread, here's some bad news. For those of you who are like me, here's some good news.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060425/music_nm/csny_dc_1

Can't wait to hear Neil's latest.

MW...you've totally ruined my evening...

 

[pooldude]

Re: CSN ruined by overrated Canadian?

You're right - the addition of Neil Young was a marketing ploy rather than an 'artistic' decision or a meaningful collaboration...

...and Ahmet Ertegun came up with this idea the moment the first album CSN album took off. CSN agreed to it because they thought the Stills-Young 'guitar duel' would help their live sound at gigs such as Woodstock.

Neil Young's motive? Well, his solo career wasn't really going anywhere - his recent album had lacklustre sales - and he wanted to exploit the success of CSN to get ahead.

It's a tragic tale....the greed of Young....And before anyone says 'all musicians are greedy and love money'....well, Young was often described in the Laurel Canyon scene as a 'breadhead' and ruthless 'user' of people...in stark contrast to the idealism (however misguided) of the times.

Young rinsed CSN dry during their peak - and has traded off his association with the band ever since....and he's given CSN nothing in return...except perhaps some increased concert revenue....but even that is debatable because CSN concerts are always packed out.

Neil Young's career is full of stories like this one....it's all take, take, take. He is rock's most legendary succubi.

How 'bout a little controversy to shake things up?

I find Big Generator's slagging of Neil Young to be laughable, if it wasn't so mean spirited & baseless.

BG is telling us all how it was, back in 1970...when BG was 2 years old?

While I was never a personal friend of Neil's...I did know bassist Bruce Palmer, & was house mates with Buffalo Springfield drummer Dewey Martin for almost 2 years in the mid '70s, & was witness to many anecdotes, phone calls, & business meetings (between Neil & Steve & Dewey & Bruce) thru my living arrangements, & also my band Whitehorse being represented by the same law firm that handled the Springfield's affairs...

...& everything I ever heard about Neil was very positive from other LA musicans, including former band members. How the heck would BG know anything about Neil Young's reputation in Laurel Canyon?

I saw CSN&Y @ Altamont in Dec '69, & Neil's playing brought much needed firepower to the group. I thought they were better with him, than not.

To say that Young's 1st 2 solo albums didn't go anywhere is equally laughable...we should all bomb so badly as "Cowgirl in the Sand" & "Cinnamon Girl" & "Everybody Knows this is Nowhere" & "The Loner" & "Down by the River"... :ha:

I don't really care who likes who, musically...it's all personal opinion.

But I don't think it's especially fair or accurate for anyone to make such biased claims about a musician as highly regarded as Neil Young, 36 years down the line.

 

[Drummer Chris]

Re: CSN ruined by overrated Canadian?

Well, this is what a discussion forum is about, though I dare say BG was definitely stirring up the witch's cauldrone on this thread!...lol
No-one really expects someone like Harry to come along, someone who has actually worked with and lived with these people...I have enjoyed the stories, and if you haven't written a book, you should man!....

 

[Big Generator]

Re: CSN ruined by overrated Canadian?

How 'bout a little controversy to shake things up?

I find Big Generator's slagging of Neil Young to be laughable, if it wasn't so mean spirited & baseless.

BG is telling us all how it was, back in 1970...when BG was 2 years old?

While I was never a personal friend of Neil's...I did know bassist Bruce Palmer, & was house mates with Buffalo Springfield drummer Dewey Martin for almost 2 years in the mid '70s, & was witness to many anecdotes, phone calls, & business meetings (between Neil & Steve & Dewey & Bruce) thru my living arrangements, & also my band Whitehorse being represented by the same law firm that handled the Springfield's affairs...

...& everything I ever heard about Neil was very positive from other LA musicans, including former band members. How the heck would BG know anything about Neil Young's reputation in Laurel Canyon?

I saw CSN&Y @ Altamont in Dec '69, & Neil's playing brought much needed firepower to the group. I thought they were better with him, than not.

To say that Young's 1st 2 solo albums didn't go anywhere is equally laughable...we should all bomb so badly as "Cowgirl in the Sand" & "Cinnamon Girl" & "Everybody Knows this is Nowhere" & "The Loner" & "Down by the River"... :ha:

I don't really care who likes who, musically...it's all personal opinion.

But I don't think it's especially fair or accurate for anyone to make such biased claims about a musician as highly regarded as Neil Young, 36 years down the line.

Firstly...the idea that you have to have 'first-hand experience' before expressing an opinion is ridiculous.

Secondly....how do I know anything about Neil Young's reputation in Laurel Canyon? Well, last year I edited a book called Hotel California: Singer-Songwriters and Cocaine Cowboys in the LA Canyons 1967-1976. The author Barney Hoskyns interviewed almost all the key figures on that scene - from David Geffen to David Crosby.

Hoskyns himself is a huge Neil Young fan - but he wasn't blind to the reality that many artists and industry types have memories of Young which are not "very positive".

I won't deny that Young's guitar playing brought some "firepower" to the live concerts. But even this wasn't entirely necessary - given that Stills is a far superior guitar player in my opinion.

As for Young's first two albums...they weren't a commercial success. I wasn't making a comment about the quality of the material itself.

Finally...why isn't it "fair" to criticize Young? This artist has been hyped and praised and mythologized for decades - so there's no need to feel that he's being victimized by "biased claims".

 

[pooldude]

Re: CSN ruined by overrated Canadian?

Neil Young....is rock's most legendary succubi.

succubus (plural succubi; from Latin succuba; "prostitute") is a female demon which seduces men (especially monks) in dreams to have sexual intercourse. They draw energy from the men to sustain themselves, often until the point of exhaustion or death of the victim.


I think Big Generator's characterizations of Neil Young are grossly exaggerated, inaccurate, & demeaning.

 

[Big Generator]

Re: CSN ruined by overrated Canadian?

succubus (plural succubi; from Latin succuba; "prostitute") is a female demon which seduces men (especially monks) in dreams to have sexual intercourse. They draw energy from the men to sustain themselves, often until the point of exhaustion or death of the victim.

Thank you for clarifying my point, Pooldude.

 

[Big Generator]

Re: CSN ruined by overrated Canadian?

I'm going to try to say much the same thing in a way that isn't glib or mean-spirited....it'll be hard but here goes:

I can see why Neil Young has received so much respect and admiration for the work he's done over the years - especially for "Harvest" and "After The Gold Rush" which are undeniably great albums. So I'm not criticizing Young as a solo artist.

However - within the context of CSNY - it's hard to respect the guy. If Young had contributed some of his best songs to the CSNY project.....had he helped the politics within the band...had he added something special to the harmonies...well, it wouldn't matter whether or not his motives were opportunistic and self-serving. But the fact is Neil Young has contributed possibly two good songs since 1969 - "Helpless" and "Ohio" - and in return he has been disproportionately rewarded.

A new CSNY tour has just been announced - which is likely to earn them $50 million. Is it any coincidence that Young has a new solo album to promote? Is this yet another example of Young exploiting his association with CSN to boost a flagging career?

Let's face it - Young was struggling in 1969 and CSN took his career to a whole new level...and in the mid-80s it was in decline so he recorded "American Dream"...and today? Well, he probably doesn't enjoy much major label backing - so what better way to 'stick it to The Man' than go on a multi-million dollar tour with CSN one more time?

Again - this wouldn't matter if there was at least some artistic integrity re: his involvement with the group - and if he didn't present himself to the world as a left-leaning maverick. The fact is - the CSNY story shows just how ruthless and materialistic Young can be.

And CSN themselves? Well, I guess it's the same with them - and who knows? Had they stayed as a trio and resisted the call of the marketing men and concert promoters they might well have recorded another album as good as the first one.

 

[Music Wench]

Re: CSN ruined by overrated Canadian?

Nothing BG says can be demeaning to Neil Young, IMO. It's just his opinion against all of Neil Young's accomplishments and he can bitch about it until the world comes to an end and it won't really matter in the whole scheme of things.

Hey, everyone is entitled to express their opinion - no matter how wrong they may be...

 

[Martha Washington]

Re: CSN ruined by overrated Canadian?

well, he's no Steve Perry!
LOL!

 

[Big Generator]

Re: CSN ruined by overrated Canadian?

Nothing BG says can be demeaning to Neil Young, IMO. It's just his opinion against all of Neil Young's accomplishments and he can bitch about it until the world comes to an end and it won't really matter in the whole scheme of things.

Hey, everyone is entitled to express their opinion - no matter how wrong they may be...

Exactly MW....this is just an insignificant thread on an internet messageboard....it's not like I went to Neil Young's house and smashed his guitars up or anything like that....and even THAT wouldn't demean his Sacred Status amongst his followers.