The Term Selling Out.

[DaKillerWolf]

I really don't care how anyone feels about the term "selling out" so I'm not going to spend any of my time debating this It isn't important to me whether or not someone is unhappy with a term I use....justifiably so I might add.

But, just as a band is free to go in whatever direction they choose to ( unfortunately there is no death sentence for selling out. In fact record companies approve of it and encourage it) Fans, ex-fans and out right haters of bands are free to say whatever they choose about a band ..they can even call a spade a spade ...call a sell out band..... sell outs... ie Metallica=Sellouttica
etc.

 

[Khor1255]

Oh yeah, like I said there are clear cut examples of bands that have sold out just to appease a 'target audience'. Even worse, there are those that once they've gained this audience go on to insult their original fan base either intentionally of otherwise.

But I'm kind of fascinated (morbidly - yes) when a band goes in a different direction for purely artistic reasons.
And 'selling out' in this way may actually produce a better band than that which started. Mindfunk's first album was like 80s drool compared to Dropped which - to me - is up there with almost any classic metal album you can think of. People say they gravitated towards grunge and some of their original fan base didn't like Dropped as much as the more candy coated debut but to me it was pure unadulterated incline that put them on the map.

 

[DaKillerWolf]

I know exactly were you are coming from, Khor, and I agree to some extent ( adding that it is hard to take a bands word for the "fact" that they just suddenly reached the mainstream sound that they had always been searching for ...). My comment was directed at those people who have been saying that the term selling out is not viably and almost calling for the outlawing of it's use.

 

[cyggy]

I really don't care how anyone feels about the term "selling out" so I'm not going to spend any of my time debating this It isn't important to me whether or not someone is unhappy with a term I use....justifiably so I might add.

But, just as a band is free to go in whatever direction they choose to ( unfortunately there is no death sentence for selling out. In fact record companies approve of it and encourage it) Fans, ex-fans and out right haters of bands are free to say whatever they choose about a band ..they can even call a spade a spade ...call a sell out band..... sell outs... ie Metallica=Sellouttica
etc.

sure fans are free to say "sell out" , fans are free to say anything no matter how airy fairy , it doesn't make it right or real .... if fans think "their" band has sold out to them then they really need to check reality .... the only contract is money for a cd or gig , it's a free exchange and no other contract has been made ... Queen attempted to write shorter hits , they were successful at it too , although it stopped me buying their albums for a number of years , they didn't sell out (no agreement had been made with the fans) , the only "SELL OUT " was large venues ...

of course you are right , fans have the right to think bands , songsmiths and record deals belong to them and are their puppets ... everyone has the right to be dillusional

 

[DaKillerWolf]

... everyone has the right to be dillusional

Yes, even people who pretend that bands never sell out have the right to be delusional.

I'm sure that everyone who likes their rock and roll watered down by the most boring, commercially safe, middle of the road popular trends of the day, are also quite sure that bands who give up their musical integrity in order to fit into the happy mainstream radio sounds (of the elderly,the diaper wearing romper room fans and all the rest of the robotic, unadventurous radio audience) are just finally coming to their senses and not selling out

OK, now I'm off to live life, leaving this boring conversation in my dust

 

[cyggy]

Yes, even people who pretend that bands never sell out have the right to be delusional.

sell out to who ?

I'm sure that everyone who likes their rock and roll watered down by the most boring, commercially safe, middle of the road popular trends of the day, are also quite sure that bands who give up their musical integrity in order to fit into the happy mainstream radio sounds (of the elderly,the diaper wearing romper room fans and all the rest of the robotic, unadventurous radio audience) are just finally coming to their senses and not selling out

OK, now I'm off to live life, leaving this boring conversation in my dust

##

now we are getting to the heart of it

musical integrity ? what the hell is that ? have musicians taken a hypocratic oath ? I would like to see it ! ..... do you think bands who "sell out" have renaged on some deal they have with fans ? If so maybe you could ellaberate ?

as for the argument against POP music , I gotta laugh at that , every generation since time began has attempted to make their music superiorr to others , musical snobbery ? wait ten years and the next music fans will be the "hardcore" rock fans calling your/our bands "pop" and "pap" .... it's well known that the stuff we now consider Old rock and roll , or POPULAR music was then considered the "real deal" hardcore rockers who loved Elvis and Bill HALEY



I think some fans have a belief that being a musician is some ethical Moral calling like a Priest or a Politician , with some mystical ethical unwritten code .... break it and the fans take it personally ? that mystifies me . I think bands are under no obligation except maybe to be good examples to inspire .


My next book :

'How to be a music fan without being a snob' ....

now where's that dust

 

[cyggy]

The other thing is sometimes I like an album even if it was only motivated by money, if the music itself is good and you enjoy then who the hell cares why it was made?
Seriously.
That is the other thing I am trying not to do, judge an album by a motive for why it was done, it is quite silly. I could be missing out on some under rated gems. Plenty of things I admit I am learning as a music fanatic.

absolutely RR ! it's merely down to if the music is good enough to buy , that about sums up the ONLY relation between a BAND and the fans , anything more is a dillusion because there is no moral accountability that bands are under or "musical integrity" ideology , no set of rules written by fans , Record companies or The Royal College of Music , it's a free market. and one man's meat is another man's poison , or one man's Rock Music is another man's POP

 

[gcczep]

Sell out means corporate to some fans I suppose. The music becomes a brand. That's the way I've seen it being interpreted. Next thing you know its plush comfy chairs in a TV show or some entertainment program. Maybe their music becomes an intro to some pop variety show.

If you really like a band's music then you can grow along with them unless of course they something ridiculously drastic like play Lawrence Welk kind of ballroom tunes. It's usually the holier than thou music critics that trumpet or bash the change however jarring it could be or maybe even unexpected. I said music critics not fans.

Take for example, a hard rock/blues outfit who put out some hammering first two set of LPs then decide to explore some more acoustic tinged music? Key word: explore. Oh my goodness? What have they done! They've gone soft and are now off to hangabout with Peter, Paul and Mary? Said guitar player who chastised the idiots with pens who missed the similar numbers in the previous two. It could be the other way around too. Take a certain poetic genius who shows up at a well known folk festival with a band backing him with electric guitars. Some of the audience were in shock and wanted to hang him.

In a way, there was a thread about maintaining affection for a band's music if they don't sound like they did in the early part of their career. All forms of art evolve for better or for worse. It is understandable though how a group's "core" fans would find it difficult to go along if it isn't the same texture of what they experienced in the beginning.

 

[DaKillerWolf]

sell out to who ?


##

now we are getting to the heart of it

The heart of long winded self righteous gibberish perhaps
if I'm ever in need of the cure for insomnia I will return to this prattle ..until then ..signing off

 

[Riff Raff]

Perfectly simple, selling out applies to bands who only do it for money and don't really care how watered down the music has to be for that to happen and even not giving a shit about the fans. Selling out is basically going against any beliefs previously had. Its quite a bandwagon term though for the most part. To be honest if a band I like happens to sell out or go in a direction I hate there is loads and loads more good bands out there, no point dwelling on it.