The Term Selling Out.

[ILoveJimmyPage]

But that's the thing: how do you decipher what is "watering down" and what is "evolving"? That's all I'm sayin.

 

[Riff Raff]

But that's the thing: how do you decipher what is "watering down" and what is "evolving"? That's all I'm sayin.

Dunno about others, by watering down I mean simplistic music that doesn't have any real progression. Music that seems extremely repetitive and just does not have anything innovative or creative is what I meant. Again speaking for myself.
A lot of the best rock and metal songs have some really good structure, they don't repeat themselves all the time and are generally very well written.

 

[annie]

I don't see why music has to progess.

 

[ILoveJimmyPage]

It's natural for all art forms to progress. Music, films, art, literature, etc.

 

[Riff Raff]

^^ Exactly.

 

[joe]

"Selling Out" and experimentation mean two completely different things to me. "Selling Out" being that of a financial gain over the artist's integrity which can consist of thier betrayal to thier roots, style, structure and sound to simply put, "sell more records". This doesn't necessarily have negative connotations as it might be a matter of a artist's survival. Thier personnal motivations, intrinsic or extrensic which is that of the view of one's own values, principles and morals. I can only comment on what I see, hear and know of the artist and the "mainstream" trend at the time of the release of an album that I consider to be "selling out" and the artist's explanation of why they "changed direction", then and now is irrelevent to me. I don't get angry (well most of the time anyway) as I do get baffled by some of my fav artist's "selling out". Actually, in some cases the artist's shift to the "mainstream" I do like, Metallica's black album for example, though I do hear the "sell out". For the most part it fails both on a personal listening level and from what I've seen, on a commercial level as well.

"Selling Out" isn't all about financial gains IMO. It can also include ego being that of the artist staying relevent in times of the changing music which isn't indicitive to thier style, formula, genre, etc. and also that of "keeping up with the Joneses". An artist strive to match or top other artist(s).

I tend to associate experimentation as a postive, progressive attribute as "Selling Out" as relatively negative.

With all that being said, in the end in doesn't really matter.

 

[Riff Raff]

The other thing is sometimes I like an album even if it was only motivated by money, if the music itself is good and you enjoy then who the hell cares why it was made?
Seriously.
That is the other thing I am trying not to do, judge an album by a motive for why it was done, it is quite silly. I could be missing out on some under rated gems. Plenty of things I admit I am learning as a music fanatic.

 

[annie]

Yes, it really doesn't matter...at all.

 

[cyggy]

Fans need to get over their ridiculous sense of entitlement when it comes to what a band does, the band decides what they get to do, the fans don't. Do fans have to collectively like what the band does? No and that would be narrow minded of the band to think that way.

.

couldn't agree more , the term sticks im my throat as it insinuates some mystical contract which doesn't exist !

 

[Khor1255]

"Selling Out" and experimentation mean two completely different things to me. "Selling Out" being that of a financial gain over the artist's integrity which can consist of thier betrayal to thier roots, style, structure and sound to simply put, "sell more records". This doesn't necessarily have negative connotations as it might be a matter of a artist's survival. Thier personnal motivations, intrinsic or extrensic which is that of the view of one's own values, principles and morals. I can only comment on what I see, hear and know of the artist and the "mainstream" trend at the time of the release of an album that I consider to be "selling out" and the artist's explanation of why they "changed direction", then and now is irrelevent to me. I don't get angry (well most of the time anyway) as I do get baffled by some of my fav artist's "selling out". Actually, in some cases the artist's shift to the "mainstream" I do like, Metallica's black album for example, though I do hear the "sell out". For the most part it fails both on a personal listening level and from what I've seen, on a commercial level as well.

"Selling Out" isn't all about financial gains IMO. It can also include ego being that of the artist staying relevent in times of the changing music which isn't indicitive to thier style, formula, genre, etc. and also that of "keeping up with the Joneses". An artist strive to match or top other artist(s).

I tend to associate experimentation as a postive, progressive attribute as "Selling Out" as relatively negative.

With all that being said, in the end in doesn't really matter.

I get what you are saying and agree with the spirit withh which you say it. However, for some bands (Rush comes immediately to mind) their selling out is more a matter of musical survival through market excess and settling for the least common denominator rather than exploring something more 'progressive' or experimental. They seem to have honestly made a shift in terms of what they were listening to from bands like King Crimson, Yes, and Zeppelin to crap like The Police and Martha and the Muffins. Neil went from sighting the works of Michael Giles, Bill Bruford and Keith Moon to praising Stewart Copeland (who is certainly worthy of praise but I hope you get what I mean here).
Other bands seemed to always be reaching for a sound that appealed to wider audiences not because they were looking for more money but because that is the sound they actually wanted. Prime example here is Iron Maiden. I have the interview where Steve Harris actually says that Dickenson was the type of singer they always wanted and their move away from the more raucous sound of the earlier albums was a musical improvement in his opinion.

How are you going to argue with that?

Anyway, there are clear cut examples of bands selling out (Kiss comes immediately to mind with Dynasty and perhaps even Love Gun) and many are unapologenic about it (again, Kiss) but it always surprised me a little when I thought a band was actually selling out and hearing them say that pop drool was the sound they were always looking for.