Rock Philosophy

[Big Generator]

In all honesty, bad lyrics are bad lyrics. A good vocalist can make the 'sounds' work, but when I hear the words it doesn't make the song anymore interesting regardless of how well the song sounds. I will always like the vocals just for the sake of the vocals, nothing else. That's not making it as good as it could be.

The only thing that can save cliche lyrics is good musicianship, emotion, and vocal talent. But a cliche lyric is a cliche lyric, there's no hiding that. It's going to affect the song adversely, and of course it depends on the band how much it might.

I think with metal and hard rock bands we listen to them with lower expectations in regards to lyrics. I don't know if that means lyrics don't matter as much. We just tell ourselves that metal bands don't write good lyrics but we are going to focus on other parts of their songs.

But if I throw on some folk or prog you better believe my expectations are going to rise back up to a higher standard.

Oh...mine are much lower with prog...it's all "on the wings of celestial seasons" and silly rubbish like that.

I take your point about folk though...as long as it isn't English folk...aboutr sea-farers and ribbons and 'all around my hat' etc...

And I'd go as far to say that I actively enjoy hard rock/metal cliches...especially if they're singing about "the night".

The highest "night" count on any rock album surely belongs to Survivor's 1986 masterpiece "When Seconds Count". The "night" is mentioned about nine times per song. Er...anyway...where was I?

 

[AboutAGirl]

I'm convinced that many people listen to the same songs and have fundamentally different ways of hearing them. I've heard from people who say that lyrics aren't the least bit important, just the sound of the words, and I fully believe them. But I think that a lot of people do take lyrics very seriously. I certainly do.

Though my hypothesis is that the general music listener doesn't necessarily interpret the full meaning of the song, they come up with a meaning for the song based on the combined effect of the sound and the connotations of parts of the lyrics that they hear and identify. I think most people don't listen to every word of a song. I could be wrong.

Anyhoo I don't have lower expectations for hard rock stuff (you probably expected that from me). I put a lot of value on the kinds of topics they sing about, i.e. girls. But I guess there is stuff like Metallica which I can't seem to relate to no matter how I try. That doesn't mean that Enter Sandman isn't freakin' sweet.

Cliche' lyrics.... hmmm... yummy... err uh.... I definetly agree that cliche' lyrics hurt the song. Even a song like, say, Amanda by Boston, which I think is very emotional and strong, loses points for its cliche'ness. But there are definetly times when a good artist can take cliche' ideas and topics and make them absolutely positively believable. I assure you that there are Avril Lavigne lyrics that would sound downright truthful if Bob Dylan sang them (... and there are Bob Dylan lyrics that would sound like bullshit if Avril Lavigne sang them). That's not a diss on Avril though 'cause ya'll know I love her.

 

[Martin Q. Blank]

The only thing that can save cliche lyrics is good musicianship, emotion, and vocal talent. But a cliche lyric is a cliche lyric, there's no hiding that. It's going to affect the song adversely, and of course it depends on the band how much it might.

That's the main reason I avoided The Beach Boys for years.

 

[Spike]

I take your point about folk though...as long as it isn't English folk...aboutr sea-farers and ribbons and 'all around my hat' etc...

I'm sure there's good and bad English folk, but as a rule I love English folk lyrics. "Gallows Pole," "Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme" and "Matty Groves" are all English folk lyrics that are part of a rich tradition that goes back hundreds of years. And they certainly don't sound like cliches because their roots are in a very different time.

Spike

 

[jenny]

I am not sure I get this thread. For me rock is about good times and rebellion. It is music for kids to bug mom and dad with not about philosophy just about fun music for me personally.

 

[Spike]

In all honesty, bad lyrics are bad lyrics. A good vocalist can make the 'sounds' work, but when I hear the words it doesn't make the song anymore interesting regardless of how well the song sounds. I will always like the vocals just for the sake of the vocals, nothing else.

Though I've seen him dissed here a few times, I'm a big Dave Matthews fan. I love his imaginative approach to rhythm and his vocal style. But I rarely understand more than scattered pieces of his lyrics. I remember buying a new Matthews album a few years ago that came with printed lyrics. As I followed along with the words, I found them borderline moronic. I stopped immediately and just enjoyed the music for what it was.

Spike

 

[TheEvilErk2008]

Most of the stuff i listen to always seems to find a new topic or a new spin on stuff, plus great musicianship, ie. rush, dream theater, yes, etc. Punk loses a lot of respect from me becuase of its lack of creative lyrics. In the end though respect means little and its all about opinion of the song as a whole.

 

[newdawnfades]

After all of that conversation about good and bad lyrics this may seem odd, but I happen to think when Cobain repeats the line "I think i'm dumb" 12 straight times at the end of the Nirvana song Dumb it is a good lyric.

 

[AboutAGirl]

While we're on the topic of repeating lines... I think when Jim Morrison does it for "learn to forget" and "get together one more time" both are brilliant....

Uhh anyway I think Dumb is nothing short of extremely insightful.

 

[Spike]

For me rock is about good times and rebellion. It is music for kids to bug mom and dad with not about philosophy just about fun music for me personally.

That sounds like a philosophy to me

Spike