On Being Derivative and Commercial

[newdawnfades]

Different? Yes...unique? No. Wonder how Webster's defines "unique?" Might be interesting to take a look.

Naw, I have my own definition and it's far less fun debating with a book.

 

[newdawnfades]

So because I was 'derived' from my mom and dad I AM DIFFERENT, not unique, just DIFFERENT? And you call yourself a Christian?

That's a load of BS that even Webster can't help you extricate yourself out of.

 

[algernon]

So because I was 'derived' from my mom and dad I AM DIFFERENT, not unique, just DIFFERENT? And you call yourself a Christian?

That's a load of BS that even Webster can't help you extricate yourself out of.

HA! Yes, I'm afraid it's true, though. We are all different, but not unique. Our struggles are very much alike...our condition, too, regardless of our station or TIME or place.

 

[Rock On!]

BUT, if I steal someone's christmas lights and put them on MY christmas tree...is my tree still pretty? is it less pretty? is this the dumbest question of the day?

Actually you make a good point, Martha. Was Zep wrong to lift the basic tune and some of the lyrics to Willie Dixon's "You Need Love"? Absolutely!

But Zep's version was a substantial remake, with faster tempo; Page adding some new licks and riffs; modified lyrics; synthesizer; Bonham's pulsating drums; Jones's thundering bass and Robert Plant's highly original voice.

Anybody who thinks that "Whole Lotta Love" sounds completely or almost identical to Dixon's "You Need Love"---needs their head examined. The two songs are as different as Jimi's version of "All Along the Watchtower" is from Dylan's original. Probably more so, because Zep added synthesizer, modified lyrics etc.

I don't condone the theft, but things actually turned out for the best in the end. Led Zeppelin gave us one of the biggest and most memorable hits of the rock era, and made Willie Dixon's name a household word with millions of rock fans who had never heard of him before the widely publicized lawsuit.

Thanks to Zep's dishonesty, Willie got a sweet settlement out of the deal, and undoubtedly sold a substantial number of albums to admiring Zep fans who discovered him because of the publicity generated by the lawsuit.

Willie and his family laughed all the way to the bank, and Dixon REMAINED ON FRIENDLY TERMS with Page and Plant. Fortunately, Willie was far more understanding and forgiving than the Zep-bashers, who continue to bring the entire episode up on one website/forum after the other. It has been old news since the 80s, but Zep-bashers thrive on their own irrelevance.

 

[Martha Washington]

and the mudshark?
and Alister Crowley?
am I a "zep basher" because I like to talk about these things?

well, I spend an awful lot of dough on stuff that says "led zeppelin" on it so I don't think I am.

what's the point of having one of the dog gonedest tales in all of rock and roll if people can't tell it?

I think it's neat knowing where those songs came from and who gets to count the dough. I LOVE zeppelin. I think the blues are the bolts in the neck and zep is the juice that makes the creature live!!!

It can be FUN to talk about these things with fun people and I think we're a barrel of monkeys!

 

[Rock On!]

I disagree, strictly speaking. Regardless of where something was derived, if the finished product has unique qualities when put together it IS unique.

MW and I were talking about the song Set Adrift On Memory Bliss, which samples the Spandau Ballet song 'True' as it's backbeat. It is still unique because the mesh of lyrics with rhythm creates an entirely different effect and feel.

Even though Zeppelin used blues songs on their inaugural effort, what they did with those songs makes it something unique. It's clearly not the same.

Many ideas are not necessarily unique, but when you put it all together the product IS different. Even Elvis covering a song is different because Elvis is singing it.

Well said, newdawnfades! I agree with virtually everything you said.

 

[Music Wench]

Actually you make a good point, Martha. Was Zep wrong to lift the basic tune and some of the lyrics to Willie Dixon's "You Need Love"? Absolutely!

But Zep's version was a substantial remake, with faster tempo; Page adding some new licks and riffs; modified lyrics; synthesizer; Bonham's pulsating drums; Jones's thundering bass and Robert Plant's highly original voice.

Anybody who thinks that "Whole Lotta Love" sounds completely or almost identical to Dixon's "You Need Love"---needs their head examined. The two songs are as different as Jimi's version of "All Along the Watchtower" is from Dylan's original. Probably more so, because Zep added synthesizer, modified lyrics etc.

I don't condone the theft, but things actually turned out for the best in the end. Led Zeppelin gave us one of the biggest and most memorable hits of the rock era, and made Willie Dixon's name a household word with millions of rock fans who had never heard of him before the widely publicized lawsuit.

Thanks to Zep's dishonesty, Willie got a sweet settlement out of the deal, and undoubtedly sold a substantial number of albums to admiring Zep fans who discovered him because of the publicity generated by the lawsuit.

Willie and his family laughed all the way to the bank, and Dixon REMAINED ON FRIENDLY TERMS with Page and Plant. Fortunately, Willie was far more understanding and forgiving than the Zep-bashers, who continue to bring the entire episode up on one website/forum after the other. It has been old news since the 80s, but Zep-bashers thrive on their own irrelevance.

Gee, are you gonna keep talking about this endlessly every chance you get? Cause repetition isn't helping. It's making me think you are protesting waaaayyyyy too much.

 

[Rock On!]

and the mudshark?
and Alister Crowley?
am I a "zep basher" because I like to talk about these things?

well, I spend an awful lot of dough on stuff that says "led zeppelin" on it so I don't think I am.

what's the point of having one of the dog gonedest tales in all of rock and roll if people can't tell it?

I think it's neat knowing where those songs came from and who gets to count the dough. I LOVE zeppelin. I think the blues are the bolts in the neck and zep is the juice that makes the creature live!!!

It can be FUN to talk about these things with fun people and I think we're a barrel of monkeys!

Uh, I was just agreeing with the analogy you made regarding the Christmas trees. If you want to talk about Crowley etc., that's your own business. Go for it.

I never claimed Zep, Page etc. were perfect--they're not even my favorite rock band. I have no problem with somebody bashing them, or anybody else--but I do expect the bashers to have documentation for their claims.

That goes for bands I despise also. If somebody makes accusations against them, they need to provide some solid proof of what they're saying. It's just simple fairness.

I thought it was "neat" hearing the Dixon story the first dozen times or so, but after a few thousand times, it has gotten a bit stale.

 

[Rock On!]

Gee, are you gonna keep talking about this endlessly every chance you get? Cause repetition isn't helping. It's making me think you are protesting waaaayyyyy too much.

Hard facts are hard facts. My amount of protest does nothing to change that.

If a person says that Abraham Lincoln was the first President of the United States, and somebody protests by shouting at the top of their lungs for an hour that it was George Washington--their level of protest does nothing to change the fact that they are correct.

Have a nice night, and God Bless you and yours, MW!

 

[newdawnfades]

CRF2 has Wayne. I think we found our equivalent.