Current pop rock vs classic rock

Soot and Stars

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I think the difference today is more audience based. There's is so much music out there right now period, venues to get it out and venues to hear it that it's not about acquiring that legendary status. It's about finding that individual taste. The legend or classic status has become a really cliched thing and one mostly Classic Rock fans hold onto. I've been doing the mod thing for years now, I've partaken in discussions like this for years and the wheel keeps spinning but the arguments are really stale and not even applicable to a sensible approach. Really anyone who's known me here over the long haul knows that I mix in as much music from ANY era as I can. My heart will always be in the creative value and output from the 90's on but really while the 90's is my peak era it's each year that accelerates my love for music. Does it get better each year? I don't know really. It's just exciting because I keep pulling up gems. You keep asking for examples but there are actual threads like Cosmic and I creating a 2011 countdown of probably over 100 albums/artist we loved just from that year. When the negative threads come up I peacefully just post examples by the criteria listed of artist that contradict that. Usually it's met with "Oooh, that's too much" or nothing.

Listen, the same thing would happen here. I could name any rock band that has a steady career with a lot of creative output and it would just be a matter of your taste not meeting mine. It would either be the typical commercial statement or it wouldn't match that sound of 70's riffage that you guys have a bias towards. Regardless, whether anybody sits on that altar of criticism there are tons of us mindless zombies who get more of a sincere connection with music now and will never have the issues you are experiencing. Whether it be old or new, the proof has been in my post over the years, that the well never runs dry unless you choose for it to be that way. I'll see you when I'm 60 and jamming with the current generation and still not forgetting to add that Simon and Garfunkel album in the mix! :cheers2
 

Khor1255

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Nice post. I don't think anyone wants the well to run dry for them. And you are correct that there are certain sounds a lot of us dinosaurs gravitate towards that are seriously lacking in today's popular music. As for venues, you are also right that there are new types of venues but an ever shrinking number of places for semi pro bands to actually get out and do a paying gig. I think this is at the heart of why everything is sounding increasingly more generic and less truly professional from a musical standpoint but - of course - that is my opinion.

Rant on:

If our culture continues to corporatize every last thing we deserve the Orwellian nightmare we are heading toward.

Rant off
 

Soot and Stars

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Nice post. I don't think anyone wants the well to run dry for them. And you are correct that there are certain sounds a lot of us dinosaurs gravitate towards that are seriously lacking in today's popular music. As for venues, you are also right that there are new types of venues but an ever shrinking number of places for semi pro bands to actually get out and do a paying gig. I think this is at the heart of why everything is sounding increasingly more generic and less truly professional from a musical standpoint but - of course - that is my opinion.

Rant on:

If our culture continues to corporatize every last thing we deserve the Orwellian nightmare we are heading toward.

Rant off

Music to me in the world has always been about the corporate and art touching. In order to get that out there you need the support or find the ooomph or ingenuity to get it out there yourself. Music is also about reaching people or finding your audience. Something as pretentious as Radiohead can make it as well as someone masses friendly as Katy Perry. Hell, a band like Sigur Ros which makes musical landscapes with their own made up language can finance a career lasting long enough to always have an anticipating audience. I like all these artist for something they've created at one point or another and each has it's own audience.

To me as long as the artist can get an album out, independently, digitally or still get that major label support they need for a majorly marketed album then they've made it. I don't care who gets huge venues myself. An artist can and will get shows as long as they are consistent in getting a body of work and there music out there.

As far as giving examples of real artist this is still going to be opinion based, right? If you are going by music that made it as far as acquiring an audience past 2,000 I can give you Damien Rice to start. As far as continuing to contribute artist it would be futile if you disagreed and somehow found every artist commercial though. Commercial is a stubborn ideal ranging from anything with what someone would consider weak generic hooks to someone having a single hit the masses to someone putting their songs in commercial. It's an outdated hippy concept though that money never touches the world of art and if a career is satiated by money to keep it's existence then the art dies. So, my one example is Damien Rice. A folky from oversees who makes beautiful, powerful music that surges at times into rock transcendence. He's a humbled, flawed, neurotic writer who got big because of his music but even bigger for the right placement of his song in a music. To me this is my favorite performance ever. Tell me what's weak, generic, commercial, uncreative and what makes him less of a performer, musician or artist? :)

I Remember
 

Lynch

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Go figure that a fun and VERY simple point made in the first post turns into some argumentative bullshit about artistic value from one era to the next.

Seriously, this image is NOT worth getting worked up over, is it?

409652_10151030988828678_645328498_n.jpg




Guess I should know better. Next time I'll put this in the Make Me Laugh thread, where if you're butt gets hurt by it, that'll be too bad as the thread title there says 'adult content', even if most of the content is actually childish.

*sigh*
 

Khor1255

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Worked up? Are you serious? We're just talking here, right?
 

Lynch

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I think it took a turn from "just talking" a while ago. My bad, I won't be doing this again...













... well at least not for a while. ;)
 

Khor1255

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Music to me in the world has always been about the corporate and art touching. In order to get that out there you need the support or find the ooomph or ingenuity to get it out there yourself.
Economic viability and corporatism are not the same thing. A local band could easily be full time musician's because there were a lot of paying venues for live music. ASCAP has made it very expensive and sometime a real hassle for a place to offer live performace. The kicker here is they do this saying it is 'protecting the artist'. What it is actually doing is making it harder for amature musicians to find places to ply their trade where they can expeience first hand an audience reaction - good or more importantly bad - to what they are playing.
Music is also about reaching people or finding your audience. Something as pretentious as Radiohead can make it as well as someone masses friendly as Katy Perry. Hell, a band like Sigur Ros which makes musical landscapes with their own made up language can finance a career lasting long enough to always have an anticipating audience. I like all these artist for something they've created at one point or another and each has it's own audience.

To me as long as the artist can get an album out, independently, digitally or still get that major label support they need for a majorly marketed album then they've made it. I don't care who gets huge venues myself. An artist can and will get shows as long as they are consistent in getting a body of work and there music out there.
And it's cool that there are new ways for artists to get their stuff out. It is sad that it is harder for bands who's forte is live performance to make it at a grass roots level.

As far as giving examples of real artist this is still going to be opinion based, right? If you are going by music that made it as far as acquiring an audience past 2,000 I can give you Damien Rice to start. As far as continuing to contribute artist it would be futile if you disagreed and somehow found every artist commercial though. Commercial is a stubborn ideal ranging from anything with what someone would consider weak generic hooks to someone having a single hit the masses to someone putting their songs in commercial. It's an outdated hippy concept though that money never touches the world of art and if a career is satiated by money to keep it's existence then the art dies. So, my one example is Damien Rice. A folky from oversees who makes beautiful, powerful music that surges at times into rock transcendence. He's a humbled, flawed, neurotic writer who got big because of his music but even bigger for the right placement of his song in a music. To me this is my favorite performance ever. Tell me what's weak, generic, commercial, uncreative and what makes him less of a performer, musician or artist? :)

I Remember
It's not bad at all. Is this someone who is really popular? I've never heard of them but that isn't much of a surprise since I never go near top 40 stations.

Any examples of more dinosaur friendly acts that are hugely popular?
 

Khor1255

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I think it took a turn from "just talking" a while ago. My bad, I won't be doing this again...













... well at least not for a while. ;)
How so? Is any difference of opinion really that offensive to people?
 

Phil B.

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Go figure that a fun and VERY simple point made in the first post turns into some argumentative bullshit about artistic value from one era to the next.

I don't feel it was "argumentative bullshit". I personally feel there were qualitative remarks made about opinions and the general "culture" a board can inherit.
 

Soot and Stars

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Economic viability and corporatism are not the same thing. A local band could easily be full time musician's because there were a lot of paying venues for live music. ASCAP has made it very expensive and sometime a real hassle for a place to offer live performace. The kicker here is they do this saying it is 'protecting the artist'. What it is actually doing is making it harder for amature musicians to find places to ply their trade where they can expeience first hand an audience reaction - good or more importantly bad - to what they are playing.

And it's cool that there are new ways for artists to get their stuff out. It is sad that it is harder for bands who's forte is live performance to make it at a grass roots level.

It's not bad at all. Is this someone who is really popular? I've never heard of them but that isn't much of a surprise since I never go near top 40 stations.

Any examples of more dinosaur friendly acts that are hugely popular?

Was it a Lady Gaga success? No. :heheh: The first album like a lot of new artist is a slow burner and can have consistent sales but never hit a high number on the actual charts. It just means the sales overall have found an audience. The debut O when he first caught on went Gold and in it's native base on the Irish charts as well as the UK (3x platinum). On the second album he had a built in audience and peaked at #22 on the charts. He had a single as well called 99 Crimes which got a lot of VH1 and radio play. He may have hit his commercial peak already and his seperation from the female collaborator Lisa Hannigan (seen in the vid) may hurt him some. Regardless he has enough of an audience to hone in if he even decides to release another album. It seems to be a possibility but the guys a little pretentious and he may shoot himself in the foot. He's a great artist but sometimes artist start going a little too inward and defiant and cost themselves a fanbase instead of the industry itself being to blame.

I see your point about politics defining performance opportunities which is why trying to build a base on an album is important even if it's just enough to be an opener for a bigger act. Just having friends who has a local band myself I can see it on a small level. I'm not sure if this is the industries fault or just the economic landscape in general. I agree plying your trade live is a great thing! I also don't mind a studio band. I think the creativity of creating something musically ideas and all is a great thing! I can support a raw rock sound with instruments or a piece using tools that most people frown on! :)

As far as examples, last year I was a big Blue October fanboy and this year I'm huge on Dead Sara which actually has a lot of qualities people have been talking about missing today! The groups vocalist was named best new vocalist by Grace Slick, had their lead single in a car commercial and is growing an audience through the recent Warped tour. I think they're only getting started! Personally for me they acquire my taste for a colorful vocalist with a great range and bands that can balance between emotional balladry and hard rock!

Dead Sara
 

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