Yes (Official Thread)
- Thread starter Reverend Rock
- Start date
All I am getting from your post is you hate the record , the rest of your points seem merely aimed at justifying it .... I don't buy it sorry friend .
I have been hearing this type of argument for over thirty years and have never been convinced ... why ? Because for me Music is first and foremost about the tunes , and with Tormato the tunes are all there , it's a great album , played it dozens of times and always got a buzz from it , if a part of it sounds something like the music at that time so what ? Are the band members a worthy judge of a release ? I doubt it , they are too locked in by introspection , ie, Rush have never experienced a Rush concert .
So Yes tried something new , good , Rush did the same and lost fans , did they sell out ? I don't think so .
I recall buying Signals by Rush on it's first day of release and was gutted the sound had changed so much ....... years later Geddy explained that they needed to try new things (even sounding "poppy ie , popular easy going , as if that is some sin ) repeating Moving Pictures would have been easy but it would have killed the group , Rush , and YES , need to try new ideas ........ even sticking some reggae in "metal" .
Integrity ? Sales ? Capitalism ?
"All this machinery making modern music
Can still be open-hearted.
Not so coldly charted, it's really just a question
Of your honesty, yeah, your honesty.
One likes to believe in the freedom of music,
But glittering prizes and endless compromises
Shatter the illusion of integrity.
For the words of the prophets were written on the studio wall,
Concert hall
And echoes with the sounds of salesmen. Of salesmen. Of salesmen." NP
I'm not trying to persuade you to buy my opinions and observations and couldn't care a less either way. But once again I don't see anything of substance to justify your opinions. There isn't anything relating to the the style, structure and the sound, instumentation, songwriting, lyrical content, production, etc. to 'Tormato'. All I read from your post was a bunch of rubbish, going off topic to Rush and a quote from what I guess is song and no credit given.
DaKillerWolf posted something of essence, significance and concreteness directly related to 'Tormato'. IMO, you didn't.
BTW, IMO, 'Signals' was a "sell-out". Fortunately with 'Grace Under Pressure' the band reeled in the MTV/music video directed commercial synth prog-pop.
I don't think DT ever sold out but I will say that with their last album, 'A Dramatic Turn Of Events' that they recycled the material from their glory days ('Images And Words', 'Awake', "Metropolis pt. 2' and 'Six Degrees') as from what I hear is that the band has run out of ideas as they went to the same old well and it was dry and full of cobwebs. With 'Train Of Thought', I think the band did go out of their comfort zone and tried something new and IMO worked. An excellent heavy metal album.
I don't hate 'Tormato'. That was your words, not mine. Yes produced worst albums: 'Big Generator', 'Talk' and 'Open Your Eyes' IMO. Their latest release, 'Fly From Here' is a good album, most notably the title track suite though rest of the songs are all but forgetful.
cyggy
Cygnusx1
@ joe , we differ fine , so moving on
did you see this thread over @ progressive rock forums ?
Topic: Yes sound-alikes
Yes sound-alikes - Progressive Rock Music Forum - Page 1
did you see this thread over @ progressive rock forums ?
Topic: Yes sound-alikes
Yes sound-alikes - Progressive Rock Music Forum - Page 1
I am always amused when I read about how my favorite Yes album came about decades ago.
When Rick Wakeman joined up he needed all new gear, so they went into the studio and recorded "Fragile"...an album born of necessity turned out to be one of their most revered albums and my favorite. I don't think they took a long time in the studio either and when "Roundabout" became a hit single they were all surprised, all the more so when our FM stations started playing the Full Length version.
Going to play it right now in fact.
When Rick Wakeman joined up he needed all new gear, so they went into the studio and recorded "Fragile"...an album born of necessity turned out to be one of their most revered albums and my favorite. I don't think they took a long time in the studio either and when "Roundabout" became a hit single they were all surprised, all the more so when our FM stations started playing the Full Length version.
Going to play it right now in fact.
cyggy
Cygnusx1
I am always amused when I read about how my favorite Yes album came about decades ago.
When Rick Wakeman joined up he needed all new gear, so they went into the studio and recorded "Fragile"...an album born of necessity turned out to be one of their most revered albums and my favorite. I don't think they took a long time in the studio either and when "Roundabout" became a hit single they were all surprised, all the more so when our FM stations started playing the Full Length version.
Going to play it right now in fact.
Hi LG . Fragile is another great album , I think Closer to the edge is my early Yes fav , Yes are the nearest thing to Classical Music I have heard in Rock , there music is Beautiful and heavenly . ... not many bands can write music that is beatiful ..
(currently listening to This WAS by Jethro Tull , Cat's Squirell sounds like Zepplin )
You make some valid points and I understand what you mean when you say 'selling out' but I think in Yes' case they may have been searching for something to keep them interested in the project or perhaps made a compromise to suit one member or another. These things are hard to figure out with a band like Yes because egos and conflicting accounts are the mainstay when you hear them recalling decisions or music ideas.
As for Rush I found it both a confirmation of my suspicions and a sad though very forthright thing when they said in their recent documentary that they made a concious decision to move away from the strive for musical excellence they were going for with Farewell to Kings and Hemispheres. They always hinted that they were getting into different types of music around the time of Permamnent Waves and onward but I never heard them come right out and say that their playing on Hemispheres was 'over their heads' in terms of what they could likely reproduce in a live show. It was refreshingly honest of them to say that 'it was just too exhausting' and 'would likely have broken us' and a tad dissapointing as well. But they are the guys who have to go out and play this stuff night after night and seemed highly critical of themselves so any mistake was likely amplified in their perception.
Bravo, and wake up at the same time.
Sorry for the tangent but I find this time in rock history to be extremely fascinating because it marks both the high tide in terms of musical achievement across the board and the beginning of the quick decent into today's popamole 'less is more' approach. It seems all bands were at the exact same time running out of new ideas and all needed a fresh breath of inspiration ala The Beatles, Hendrix or whatever else you might feel was a catylist for the soaring incline of the late 60s and early through mid 70s.
As for Tormato, I rank it about the same as Drama (yeah, I know) and far above 90120 and perhaps even slightly above the very inspired but ultimately excessive Tales From Topographic Oceans. Tales is an album I have very mixed feelings about because while I really love some of the themes and song parts all four of them drift off (in my opinion) towards the far from stellar and the contrast between the exciting movements and this has always been a little off putting to me. I think they were going for a sort of rock symphonic arrangement but at times it sounds as if they are deliberately streching out song parts to fill up an album side. Condensed into one album this may have been the best thing they ever did but to my ears it just sounds excessive and my favorite song from them is Gates of Delerium so I have nothing against album side long songs.
But you say some absolute truths in your last post and I have to say hats off for mentioning: 'BTW, IMO, 'Signals' was a "sell-out". Fortunately with 'Grace Under Pressure' the band reeled in the MTV/music video directed commercial synth prog-pop.' because Signals was an album that hit me like a ton of shit covered bricks when I first heard it and took me years to divorce the notion that it was a Rush album so that I could learn to appreciate it at all.
I also really agree with this: 'Yes produced worst albums: 'Big Generator', 'Talk' and 'Open Your Eyes' IMO.' but of course would like to add 90210 to that but it is a slight difference of opinion and I don't think the crap 80s album is that terribly far behind Tormato just that it is a transparent sell out album. I wish the Cinema project would have gone forth with Anderson as a contributor and maybe been a stepping stone to a real Yes album in the 80s but that is another topic alltogether.
Because your taste seems so close to mine in some areas I think I'll have to give 'Fly From Here' a listen. I'm so tired of being thoroughly disapointed by once great bands but who knows?
As for Rush I found it both a confirmation of my suspicions and a sad though very forthright thing when they said in their recent documentary that they made a concious decision to move away from the strive for musical excellence they were going for with Farewell to Kings and Hemispheres. They always hinted that they were getting into different types of music around the time of Permamnent Waves and onward but I never heard them come right out and say that their playing on Hemispheres was 'over their heads' in terms of what they could likely reproduce in a live show. It was refreshingly honest of them to say that 'it was just too exhausting' and 'would likely have broken us' and a tad dissapointing as well. But they are the guys who have to go out and play this stuff night after night and seemed highly critical of themselves so any mistake was likely amplified in their perception.
Bravo, and wake up at the same time.
Sorry for the tangent but I find this time in rock history to be extremely fascinating because it marks both the high tide in terms of musical achievement across the board and the beginning of the quick decent into today's popamole 'less is more' approach. It seems all bands were at the exact same time running out of new ideas and all needed a fresh breath of inspiration ala The Beatles, Hendrix or whatever else you might feel was a catylist for the soaring incline of the late 60s and early through mid 70s.
As for Tormato, I rank it about the same as Drama (yeah, I know) and far above 90120 and perhaps even slightly above the very inspired but ultimately excessive Tales From Topographic Oceans. Tales is an album I have very mixed feelings about because while I really love some of the themes and song parts all four of them drift off (in my opinion) towards the far from stellar and the contrast between the exciting movements and this has always been a little off putting to me. I think they were going for a sort of rock symphonic arrangement but at times it sounds as if they are deliberately streching out song parts to fill up an album side. Condensed into one album this may have been the best thing they ever did but to my ears it just sounds excessive and my favorite song from them is Gates of Delerium so I have nothing against album side long songs.
But you say some absolute truths in your last post and I have to say hats off for mentioning: 'BTW, IMO, 'Signals' was a "sell-out". Fortunately with 'Grace Under Pressure' the band reeled in the MTV/music video directed commercial synth prog-pop.' because Signals was an album that hit me like a ton of shit covered bricks when I first heard it and took me years to divorce the notion that it was a Rush album so that I could learn to appreciate it at all.
I also really agree with this: 'Yes produced worst albums: 'Big Generator', 'Talk' and 'Open Your Eyes' IMO.' but of course would like to add 90210 to that but it is a slight difference of opinion and I don't think the crap 80s album is that terribly far behind Tormato just that it is a transparent sell out album. I wish the Cinema project would have gone forth with Anderson as a contributor and maybe been a stepping stone to a real Yes album in the 80s but that is another topic alltogether.
Because your taste seems so close to mine in some areas I think I'll have to give 'Fly From Here' a listen. I'm so tired of being thoroughly disapointed by once great bands but who knows?
Absolutely agree. Very close to classical in terms of rock music.
Wow! That might be my favorite Jethro Tull album. Mick Abrams' playing on that and the drumming are out of this world. Slight correction: Zeppelin sounds like Cat's Squirrel not the other way around. I also find striking similarities stylistically between This Was and the first Sabbath album. My God what an absolute delight it must have been to be bopping around the club scene in mid 60s England.(currently listening to This WAS by Jethro Tull , Cat's Squirell sounds like Zepplin )
No bad feelings.
I've browsed that thread on a couple occasions in the past. Off the top of my head I would recommend 'Rites At Dawn' (2011) by Wobbler. Retro Yes. Personally I prefer their two previous albums with 'Hinterland' being my fav. More eclectic and in the vein of King Crimson.
I saw the 'Metal Evolution' prog/metal episode and I think it was Geddy that stated the quotes you mention in your above post. What he said might/might not be true but it doesn't change mind in what I hear. It's basically irrelevent and doesn't shake my interpretation on 'Signals' what so ever or any other album from Rush.
Yes has had so many different formations/personnel so it's somewhat difficult and maybe even be unfair to compare different albums and/or line-ups in different eras (though I still do). To me, it seems more reasonable and relative to compare 'Going For The One' to 'Tormato' as an example as both albums had the same personnel and were released about a year apart as oppossed to '90125' or even 'Drama' for that matter.
'90125' is just as unimaginative and uninspired as the title itself. With Trevor Rabin's flashy AOR/pop guitar hooks and the dischording digi breaks courtesy of the production from Trevor Horn is nothing short of a chop, slash and mishmash. A cough and bark hack job.
For years now I no longer have any expectations on a new Yes album. Like you, I've been disappointed too many times as I no longer compare the "classic" Yes albums to others as it's nothing but futile and deters from my listening experience.
For me, the '80's was mostly very frustrating and disappointing. Hollow, bland, colorless, spiritless, etc... Wishy-washy and **-hum. There was some exceptions of course. NWOBHW, thrash metal, traditional heavy metal, some hard rock and prog. The early '80's I back tracked in time and from there my main focus was on various sub-genres from '65-'75 with more emphasises on '68-'73.
I completely disagree with your opinion on todays music. 2011 was the best year for my listening preferences since, do I dare say, the mid '70's. Probably something I shouldn't say as some are still cemented in the classic rotation.
