Stargazer vs Achilles Last Stand

[dr wu]

Went with Led Zep....to me a more interesting song structure.
'Stargazer' sounds like Rainbow was doing their version of 'Kashmir'.....since it has some of those 'eastern' chord structures in the keyboard sweep parts (it's obvious that Zep influenced many bands to try other things). Not a bad song but it has that classic power metal vibe which never interested me. While Dio can surely belt out a song I think Plant can actually sing and there's a richness and earthiness to his vocals that Dio lacks. Blackmore is a great player but he has little feel/soul to me and is clear and technical while Page has a lot of feel in his playing and is 'sloppy' at times but there is again that richness or tonal quality (and unusual chords) that other good players lack. As Plant once said his guitar playing 'came from somewhere left of heaven '.
Always preferred Zep over DP...Zeps songs were better and more original/unique overall than what DP wrote and I've said before that I never felt that Blackmore got enough decent material to work with.

 

[Hydrazoic Acid]

Hydrazoic Acid and you are not embarrassed by the fact that Plant sang in a wheelchair. I mean sitting!!

So what? Does that negate the fact that Ronnie is an incomparably more powerful singer than Robert? Did you heard, like Dio sang in '85, in the Sacred Heart tour? And those feeble efforts that Plant squeezed out of himself at Live Aid that same year? It's just ridiculous to argue about it.

 

[TACdtf]

Went with Led Zep....to me a more interesting song structure.
'Stargazer' sounds like Rainbow was doing their version of 'Kashmir'.....since it has some of those 'eastern' chord structures in the keyboard sweep parts (it's obvious that Zep influenced many bands to try other things). Not a bad song but it has that classic power metal vibe which never interested me. While Dio can surely belt out a song I think Plant can actually sing and there's a richness and earthiness to his vocals that Dio lacks. Blackmore is a great player but he has little feel/soul to me and is clear and technical while Page has a lot of feel in his playing and is 'sloppy' at times but there is again that richness or tonal quality (and unusual chords) that other good players lack. As Plant once said his guitar playing 'came from somewhere left of heaven '.
Always preferred Zep over DP...Zeps songs were better and more original/unique overall than what DP wrote and I've said before that I never felt that Blackmore got enough decent material to work with.

Lots to chew on here Doc.

I've got to be honest...ACL has never really "hooked" me. I've always been impressed by it, but never really moved by it. To me, it never really climaxes.

Stargazer is a Dio tour de force, and the climactic outro with some of Cozy Powell's most ferocious drumming ever. Goose bump inducing.


Also, Dream Theater has covered both songs..

 

[dr wu]

Lots to chew on here Doc.

I've got to be honest...ACL has never really "hooked" me. I've always been impressed by it, but never really moved by it. To me, it never really climaxes.

Stargazer is a Dio tour de force, and the climactic outro with some of Cozy Powell's most ferocious drumming ever. Goose bump inducing.


Also, Dream Theater has covered both songs..

Did not know that Dream Theater covered those 2 songs.....interesting. I assume that was live and not in the studio?
'ACL' is not a favorite Zep song for me either...though it is a good one. Just to mention in passing ,Page once said that Presence was perhaps his favorite Zep lp....hmmm...I find that hard to believe but maybe he was 'drunk' when he said that?
As far as 'Stargazer' and Dio....I have never been a fan of him or DP/Rainbow for that matter. Dio has a great metal/hard rock voice but never really cared for the bands he was in. I like a few of the early DP albums (Have all the earlier ones)....DP In Rock, Fireball, Machine Head, Made In Japan ...even like the earlier psych rock stuff but to me they are nowhere near the creative aspects of Zeps albums. Blackmore is a great player no doubt but imho he has not written anything 'truly interesting' for me ,and I'm talking about the whole classic rock genre. (Smoke On The Water and Woman From Tokyo are solid hard rock and Child IN Time borders on proggy hard rock but thats about it for me). I'm sure many 'metal heads' love other things from them but none of it stands out to me.
Big fan of Cozy Powell btw....love his work with Jeff Beck and others.

 

[TACdtf]

Dream Theater covered ACL at a live show in '95. It was part of a medley, but they got fairly far into it. It's on the A Change Of Seasons EP.
Stargazer was covered in the studio and is part of the Covers disc included with 209's Black Clouds & Silver Linings release.

Thay absolutely crush Stargazer.

I'm not all that familiar with the Beck albums, but love Cozy in everything else. I forever regret not taking those Martin Era Sabbath albums seriously in real time. Got to see Cozy live twice.

 

[dr wu]

Dream Theater covered ACL at a live show in '95. It was part of a medley, but they got fairly far into it. It's on the A Change Of Seasons EP.
Stargazer was covered in the studio and is part of the Covers disc included with 209's Black Clouds & Silver Linings release.

Thay absolutely crush Stargazer.

I'm not all that familiar with the Beck albums, but love Cozy in everything else. I forever regret not taking those Martin Era Sabbath albums seriously in real time. Got to see Cozy live twice.

Saw Cozy in 1974 or so when Beck did a Rough and Ready/Jeff Beck Group tour in CHicago and he played for him.
Second time I saw Beck in the early 90's Terry Bozzio was on drums and he;s also a beast.
ps....I'll look for the Stargazer DReam Theater version on you tube.

 

[TACdtf]

Here it is..

Saw Cozy in 1986 with ELPowell, and in 1993 as part of Brian May's band opening for GnR.

 

[Robert 55]

Personally, I judge these two songs primarily on the guitar work. And this is where Jimmy, in my humble opinion, beats Richie.

 

[Robert 55]

Richie's group recorded in comfortable conditions. LZ didn’t understand anything, Plant was injured... the rest of the group didn’t have any special ideas, Jimmy took everything into his own hands and they were able to give us Achilles. Where the guys essentially anticipated the work of Iron Maiden. So no matter how Dio sings....my choice is Achilles.

 

[Robert 55]

Аchilles beat Stargazer