Joni Mitchell: Everything about Bob Dylan is fake

[annie]

I ran across this today and it is interesting because it was written by a not-so-much fan of Joni yet supports her views on Dylan. It starts out like this...

Caterwauling Canuck “folk singer” Joni Mitchell got just about everybody riled up with that sweet morsel of self-serving insight, but the real shock is not that Mitchell is absolutely correct but that someone finally came out and said it. After decades of carefully manicured deification by Columbia Records, brain-dead rock critics and the slimy elite institution that elevated such barely able snake-oil salesmen as Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger to celestial heights, it’s high time to flout indoctrination and examine Dylan’s track record as a Grade-A phony.

and ends like this...

As a junta-backed counter-culture figurehead, Dylan is ideal: a harmless, unoriginal patsy, a cute insouciant whose relentlessly self-involved stance never threatened anyone, save for the hazard of the droning lip service endlessly paid him. We should all praise Joni Mitchell for this overdue call-out (just don‘t ask us to listen to her records), but it’s unlikely that any in the Zim Cult will even consider the ramifications of her statement. But when you pile it up with all the rest, there’s a single conclusion to be made: Bob Dylan is an artistic (and ethical) fraud, one whose own fear of creativity has long since given way to an apparently lifelong practice of emulating his superiors by vampirism, siphoning off their intellectual blood and using it to top off his own under-baked efforts. Weirdly, even then, the results have been scarcely palatable.
more at...
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jw...uts-bob-dylan/

 

[Lynch]

Either way, it was completely unnecessary of her to come out of the blue and say something cruel like that.

I disagree. It was LONG overdue for someone from the same genre of music to call him out on the carpet for this.

Of course fans (and some non-fans) say "who cares". Well, if Hendrix claimed that Watchtower was his, people would be outraged, even though in my opinion, it is infinitely better. If the Beatles claimed Twist and Shout to be their own, people would be upset. If Dolly Parton claimed Stairway to Heaven to be her own, people would be wretching in the streets.


Now, one may say that those comparisons don't work because they were popular pieces of music redone by different artists a couple/few years later. Saying something like that would be the same as saying Dylan's theft and plageurism is ok because he stole stuff from lesser known writers and artists.

So, back to the comment about Joni's comments being unnecessary, I say bullshit, they are completely necessary, relavent and LONG overdue!

 

[Tattoo'd Lady]

Excellent examples, Annie. You fleshed out in detail what I had generalized when I talked about the liberal "borrowing" practices of early American folk music.

i agree, folk singers did these things all the time, if any one of them wanted to file a lawsuit against bob then they would have, i'm sure Arlo Guthrie could have and still can file one to try to get his dad recognition, but he knows thats how things work in the folk community and there's no need to get all riled up about it

 

[Mr. Shadow]

I've been thinking about this for a few weeks. Dylan wrote at least 250 songs.
Most of them are quite original. Those questioned here reference materil\al that is in the public domain and is fair game.

As far as being fake... which of his myriad persona's is she referring to? If anything Bob veiled himself from the public and quite enjoys hiding behing his mystique. I doubt that few, outside of his family, really have a clue as to who the true Robert Zimmerman is.

As to his name--it's standard entertainer practice to create a stage name.

Joni has never had to live up to the almost God-like status that hovers over Dylan. I don't understand her anger... especially the timing of it. I think she just had a bout of attention whore syndrome and somehow feels left out of current events.

Dylan is one of America's greatest songwriter/poets. His influence in music, religion, and political thought is overwhelming. Joni is a lesser counterpart that has lost her inner identity.

I doubt Dylan cares very much about her opinion of him. He has certainlt dealt with the subject in the past:

You got a lotta nerve
To say you are my friend
When I was down
You just stood there grinning

You got a lotta nerve
To say you gota helping hand to lend
You just want to be on
The side that's winning

You say I let you down
You know it's not like that
If you're so hurt
Why then don't you show it

You say you lost your faith
But that's not where it's at
You had no faith to lose
And you know it

I know the reason
That you talk behind my back
I used to be among the crowd
You're in with

Do you take me for such a fool
To think I'd make contact
With the one who tries to hide
What he don't know to begin with

You see me on the street
You always act surprised
You say, "How are you?" "Good luck"
But you don't mean it

When you know as well as me
You'd rather see me paralyzed
Why don't you just come out once
And scream it

No, I do not feel that good
When I see the heartbreaks you embrace
If I was a master thief
Perhaps I'd rob them

And now I know you're dissatisfied
With your position and your place
Don't you understand
It's not my problem

I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
And just for that one moment
I could be you

Yes, I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
You'd know what a drag it is
To see you

 

[Astrid Kirchherr65]

First Of all, It might shock alot of people ,

But I've NEVER been a huge Dylan fan. I respect him as an artists and his songwriting is amazing ..

other than his friendship /relationship to George Harrison personally and musically , I never really got into him....

Now, before you all rope tie me

It's MY opinion ... not saying he sucks or anything ..I just DON'T think he's the god he's been made into in music.

That being said, I feel Joni Mitchell (who I am ALSO not a fan of) has a right to her opinion. She is a respected musician herself and I'm sure has better knowledge of her peers than we do..I don't think she is right or wrong..

just gossip imo.

As far as Madonna - I agree lol

As far as Grace and Janis - When is it her business to judge their morals?
I'm sure her past isn't so squeeky clean...

This is the ranting of a musician ...often full of hype and nothing to get upset about

 

[vegasi]

this is really odd, she seems like a bitter old woman.

 

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mitchellDylan

I can only say Amen Sister!

He is jive. Read the other Dylan whence he stole.
Show me a good line of Zimmerman's and I'll show you a better one from a real poet.

on the other hand: " . . . it was just the arbutus rustling . . ." : better.

Tom Ross

 

[LG]

^^Must have a lot of venom for Dylan to log in and bump a thread this old that questions his stature in the music world...

 

[Aero]

Joni makes a good point about Madonna. She was at the forefront of the downward spirial of pop music.

 

[LG]

^^My dislike of Madonna and everything she did is well known, I don't own any of her albums, think she's a ***** and have no use for her in general.