Most overrated rock artists of all time?

[Hepcat]

Runtfan:

Yeah, "relics" probably wasn't a wise choice of terms...."Nostalgia" is probably closer to what I meant.

Actually "nostalgia" isn't that much better a term than "relics". Are music lovers listening to Beethoven's "Nine Symphony" just listening to some relic out of a sense of nostalgia? Could perhaps they not really enjoy the "Ninth Symphony"? That's the beauty of the recorded music we've had for the last hundred years or so. It's forever.

 

[starman]

WOW, starman...uh, maybe one or two less thermosfuls of coffee in the future, huh?

I don't see a whole lot that needed substantiating in gregjohnson's post - maybe the Elvis quote. It's been pretty well documented that (many, not all) radio programmers didn't think America was ready for a black man to be the standard bearer for rock'n'roll in the mid - 50's, as was the case with most American institutions. The U.S. military was one of the first , and most successful institutions to integrate...major league baseball, which was about 80 years old at that point, was only a decade beyond Jackie Robinson and still had relatively few black stars...and obviously it would still be many years before many other facets of American life were even legally integrated. let alone in a practical sense.
Your Jimi Hendrix example is flawed because first of all the 60's were not the 50's...a whole decade of civil rights upheaval had been going on between Little Richard and Jimi Hendrix ( during which time Hendrix played in Little Richard's band ) and in the music world, several years of massive successes from Motown and to a lesser degree Stax had warmed people up to embracing black stars. Add to that the fact that Hendrix really did have talent and oodles of star power. And also there just hasn't been a huge number of black musicians that have tried to make it as "rock" musicians - willingly allowing and qualifying themselves to be categorized as such - so the sample is really too small to make Hendrix' rise to fame remarkable enough to make a case either way.

And did you REALLY, TRULY say that the NAACP tried to destroy "real equality based on REAL merit and not the color of someone's skin"???...oh my god
Do you know ANYTHING about American history? It's only been in roughly the second half of America's existence that America would acknowledge that certain races were any more than cattle...and only in the last 45 years that blacks could eat, drink, vote, learn, and worship as equals (in a legal if not practical sense)...in YOUR lifetime and mine all these things were denied, and some of them still are in some places.
"REAL equality" is still a work in progress in the "Land Of The Free And The Home of The Brave".

So, although you can't actually point out one single ill truth about what I stated specifically, except for your exceptionally loose try at rounding off (falsely) what I had to state about the EFFECT (not the intent) of the NAACP, you really don't have anything substantial to state at all with respect to my point. <sigh>

When did I state that the Jimi Hendrix reference was aimed at the 50s? Greg was making statements relative to a few years ago concerning racism in Rock, let alone the 60s. Since when was the conversation limited to the 50s?

I simply asked for proof about his racially motivated Elvis statement, let alone the quote he stated Elvis made, which whether Elvis stated or not has NOTHING to do with the fact that Greg is claiming that if Chuck Berry didn't go to jail, he would have been as big or bigger than Elvis.

As far as understanding American History, lets have a look and see where YOU are attempting to take the discussion.

Do you know ANYTHING about American history? It's only been in roughly the second half of America's existence that America would acknowledge that certain races were any more than cattle...and only in the last 45 years that blacks could eat, drink, vote, learn, and worship as equals (in a legal if not practical sense)...in YOUR lifetime and mine all these things were denied, and some of them still are in some places.
"REAL equality" is still a work in progress in the "Land Of The Free And The Home of The Brave".

This is trolling whether you want to admit it or not.

I will ask you this: WTF does ANYTHING you just stated have to do with racism in ROCK N ROLL and SPECIFIC examples of skin color determining success and notoriety within rock n roll? That's what we are discussing here.

It is a FACT that the NAACP HAS underscored merit in favor of skin color. How many white students have been denied positions in major universities within the US in the last 30 years because of this ass backward, Neanderthal thinking? Quota's DO NOT the best qualifiers with respect to educational admittance make. That's specifically what the NAACP has given us. QUOTAS, not EQUAL opportunity.

Seems to me that a GREAT number of black artists were idolized back in the 50s because of their SUCCESS and the MUSIC which DETERMINED their success.

Just ask all the White Cats around the globe during the 60s and 70s that WORSHIPED these guys and crafted their music as specifically inspired by them.

Please quote me specifically where I stated truths differing from what you posted above with respect for your civil rights rant. I won't be holding my breath.

That was a nice little sermon runtfan, but you sure didn't get much done. Not with respect to anything I posted on this forum anyhow.

When you are ready to get into history, you let me know. The books I learned from didn't have the same type of lines you are attempting to color within and without.

Still waiting for proof that the color of a person's skin has anything to do with their success or notoriety as a ROCK N ROLL artist, and just for you runtfan, let me make this clear. That's with respect to ANY decade that included Rock N Roll, not just the 50s.

 

[troggy]

Yeah, "relics" probably wasn't a wise choice of terms but my point was that of the five bands you named (Animals, Kinks,Jefferson Airplane, Turtles, Doors) only two made it into the 70's and The Airplane reformed into the Starship and had a revamped lineup and sound. "Nostalgia" is probably closer to what I meant.

It's only nostalgia if you're listening primarily to relive the past.

 

[runtfan]

Starman...Regarding the Jimi Hendrix thing...I guess I don't understand what point you were trying to make in the first place then.

And you were the one the injected the NAACP into the discusion and it sounded to me like you were saying that their intent was flawed because there had actually ever been a merit based system for ANYTHING in the U.S., when seen from the black person's ( or any sensible person of any stripe's) point of view. History is clear in showing that not only were the odds against blacks - there were hardly even any odds at all since they weren't included in large swaths of the American experience in the first place ( either by law or in practice). So it sounded to me like you were attacking the "intent" of the NAACP with a ridiculous assertion that there had ever been anything resembling a merit based system of reward, opportunity, or advancement in place in the U.S.( and nobody should argue that the EFFECTS of quotas have not been dodgy at best,and certainly a lousy remedy for an even worse problem). There's still not and probably never will be, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with race...any race has its' own system of favoritism/discrimination and hypocrisy within itself, let alone with regards to other races. So either way, we're in agreement that quotas are a lousy idea, but it sounded to me like you were saying that because of the NAACP. the "fair" system of merit based advancement and opportunity had been replaced by the unfair quota systems...all I'm saying is that they (quotas) are a different brand of unfairness and the main reason they're unfair is that it doesn't bring us any closer to that merit based system and don't make any more sense than the brand of racism that has existed in America since long before its' inception ( although it's far more humane anyway).

 

[runtfan]

It's only nostalgia if you're listening primarily to relive the past.

OK...how about "defunct","disbanded", "no longer active"...I was going for something a little less clinical than that but I'll let you guys assign the term you like.

 

[snakes&ladders]

Are you telling me that Chuck Berry, Ike Turner (who was a woman beating drug addict, that certainly didn't help his credibility) & Little Richard weren't as HUGE as Bill Haley, Dick Dale & Jerry Lee Lewis? Because if you are, you are COMPLETELY wrong.

Can I step in here?! ....they were all HUGE

 

[gregjohnson1229]

So, although you can't actually point out one single ill truth about what I stated specifically, except for your exceptionally loose try at rounding off (falsely) what I had to state about the EFFECT (not the intent) of the NAACP, you really don't have anything substantial to state at all with respect to my point. <sigh>

When did I state that the Jimi Hendrix reference was aimed at the 50s? Greg was making statements relative to a few years ago concerning racism in Rock, let alone the 60s. Since when was the conversation limited to the 50s?

I simply asked for proof about his racially motivated Elvis statement, let alone the quote he stated Elvis made, which whether Elvis stated or not has NOTHING to do with the fact that Greg is claiming that if Chuck Berry didn't go to jail, he would have been as big or bigger than Elvis.

As far as understanding American History, lets have a look and see where YOU are attempting to take the discussion.



This is trolling whether you want to admit it or not.

I will ask you this: WTF does ANYTHING you just stated have to do with racism in ROCK N ROLL and SPECIFIC examples of skin color determining success and notoriety within rock n roll? That's what we are discussing here.

It is a FACT that the NAACP HAS underscored merit in favor of skin color. How many white students have been denied positions in major universities within the US in the last 30 years because of this ass backward, Neanderthal thinking? Quota's DO NOT the best qualifiers with respect to educational admittance make. That's specifically what the NAACP has given us. QUOTAS, not EQUAL opportunity.

Seems to me that a GREAT number of black artists were idolized back in the 50s because of their SUCCESS and the MUSIC which DETERMINED their success.

Just ask all the White Cats around the globe during the 60s and 70s that WORSHIPED these guys and crafted their music as specifically inspired by them.

Please quote me specifically where I stated truths differing from what you posted above with respect for your civil rights rant. I won't be holding my breath.

That was a nice little sermon runtfan, but you sure didn't get much done. Not with respect to anything I posted on this forum anyhow.

When you are ready to get into history, you let me know. The books I learned from didn't have the same type of lines you are attempting to color within and without.

Still waiting for proof that the color of a person's skin has anything to do with their success or notoriety as a ROCK N ROLL artist, and just for you runtfan, let me make this clear. That's with respect to ANY decade that included Rock N Roll, not just the 50s.

hey starman. i probably exaggerated some regarding elvis and chuck berry. The thing that really eats at me with Elvis probably isnt anything that is ELvis's fault. It is more the media love affair with Elvis. The title King of rockn roll has always erked me. i respect your opinion and apologize for my ranting.
I am currently on tour and for the fourth time in my careeri have had some idiot throw a beer bottle at me along with racial remarks regarding me belonging in rock n roll. i let some of my personal stuff get in the way of making productive posts

 

[starman]

Hey dudes, listen please, it's me that owes you a sincere apology. I should have known better than to argue politics and religion at the forum dinner table among friends. I'm really sorry.

After being a musician for the last 32 years, and being in love musically with every race of human being imaginable, it's just impossible for me to buy into the race exclusion thing when it comes to art. I realize of course that

I know racism is a truly horrible thing from first hand experience. I grew up in Pontiac, Michigan where the population was about 50/50 black/white at the time and I have witnessed it first hand from both sides of the fence. However the illuminating language of musical inspiration quickly revealed to me that the concept of racism is a doctrine of the shallow, fearful, and weak minded.

In truth, I believe that music in and of itself has done more to eliminate and heal the disgraceful falsehood of racism within the human condition than any other socially observable interactive process. If anything it has taught us on a subconscious level that we must look beyond appearance to reap the ultimate joy and inspiration that music affords it's appreciators. Those like us.

I'm sorry you had a bottle thrown at you Greg. I'm super glad it didn't hurt you seriously. I hope that idiot gets what's coming to him and also sincerely HOPE that is the last time you ever have such an insult hurled your way. Literally!

 

[Soot and Stars]

Call me crazy or whatever, but seeing how this all worked out actually put me in a good mood. The forum world is crazy sometimes but in the end even though we'll never truly know everything about each other we are all here because we love music and art with a passion that we just don't find in our immediate surroundings! Greg, your music is great so don't let some inbred, redneck trash set you off your course for greatness! Star Man, you are right about music destroying barriers! I think a debate is cool but the best things I like about music is when it brings people together in some way. In the end we all want the same things from it and want to spread that passion to others because we feel it so much that we can't possibly contain it! Peace!

 

[gregjohnson1229]

Hey dudes, listen please, it's me that owes you a sincere apology. I should have known better than to argue politics and religion at the forum dinner table among friends. I'm really sorry.

After being a musician for the last 32 years, and being in love musically with every race of human being imaginable, it's just impossible for me to buy into the race exclusion thing when it comes to art. I realize of course that

I know racism is a truly horrible thing from first hand experience. I grew up in Pontiac, Michigan where the population was about 50/50 black/white at the time and I have witnessed it first hand from both sides of the fence. However the illuminating language of musical inspiration quickly revealed to me that the concept of racism is a doctrine of the shallow, fearful, and weak minded.

In truth, I believe that music in and of itself has done more to eliminate and heal the disgraceful falsehood of racism within the human condition than any other socially observable interactive process. If anything it has taught us on a subconscious level that we must look beyond appearance to reap the ultimate joy and inspiration that music affords it's appreciators. Those like us.

I'm sorry you had a bottle thrown at you Greg. I'm super glad it didn't hurt you seriously. I hope that idiot gets what's coming to him and also sincerely HOPE that is the last time you ever have such an insult hurled your way. Literally!

thanks bud. I always felt that music and other forms of art could trandscend race. I live in Prince George's County, Maryland i predominantely black populated county. When i hear someone say that is black music or that is white music it drives me up the wall. Music u hear it. What u hear doesnt have a color. Hey btw if u could do me a favor since now i know your are a musician. Could you check out some of my stuff in the musician's corner.