Who Best Represented The Spirit of RocknRoll??

[Martin Q. Blank]

Great post, Marty! And I agree with most of what you say.

But I have a different take on Elvis's story...

...Imagine it's 1946 in Chicago. On September 9, a 41 year old bluesman from Mississippi named Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup entered an RCA studio. Crudup had a strong voice and was a good songwriter, having enjoyed three Top Five hits on the R&B charts in the previous year. On this particular day, Crudup cuts a gem entitled "That's All Right." Just ten days later, on September 19, a 35 year old country singer from Kentucky named Bill Monroe entered Columbia's studio in Chicago. Monroe had just assembled a new band and was on the verge of creating a new subgenre that would become known as bluegrass. On this particular day, Monroe cuts a gem entitled "Blue Moon of Kentucky." Crudup and Monroe might have even bumped into each other on the streets of Chicago in September 1946. But these two musicians were from entirely different worlds. If they had met, would this blues musician from Mississippi and the country musician from Kentucky have anything at all in common?

Fast forward to July 1954 in Sun Studios in Memphis. The success that Sam Phillips, the owner of Sun, has enjoyed to date has been from recording black blues and R&B musicians. But today he is directing a recording session with a young white singer named Elvis Presley. Nothing seems to click. During a break, Presley starts fooling around by belting out an obscure blues tune called "That's All Right." Intrigued, Phillips records the song and realizes that he's got something unique. After running through the song several times, Phillips calls the session to a halt and takes the master to a DJ friend. The friend loves the track and plays it on his local radio show. The phone won't stop ringing. The song is wildly popular, with most listeners thinking that he's black. But to release the song, Phillips has to cut a flip side. Again, they struggle to find something that works until Presley starts singing a popular country song called "Blue Moon of Kentucky" at an uptempo pace. When released, the record becomes a regional hit.

This one single captured the genius of Elvis Presley. While Phillips was a brilliant producer, it was Presley who could take an old blues song and an old country song and synthesized them into something new and totally different. While I am no great fan of Elvis after his contract was sold to RCA, his Sun sides stand as a landmark of fresh, rebellious and incredibly innovative music that transformed the cultural landscape of America.

Spike

That's an interesting take on things, Spike. Thank you for sharing that anecdote.

 

[Martha Washington]

oh, Spike I'm not suggesting EP's RCA stuff is a pimple on the BUTT of his Sun stuff, just that I've grown to like it on it's own merits.

 

[Martin Q. Blank]

How can you not see cultural impact as a important element of rocknroll?

Well, I think we're defining "cultural impact" in different ways.

I understand it's all subjective, but I can't wrap my mind around the idea of trying to recognize what represents the spirit of something yet relegating how that something had an impact on our culture. Every discussion I usually have, every program I have watched goes DIRECTLY to effect rock had on culture. Rock isn't JUST about the music. You had an audience, you had generations of fans impacted by the first rock heroes who constituted the secondary and third layers of rock creation.

I know, I know. I guess, to me, rock and roll is very much about being subversive. Once something has broken into the mainstream (which Elvis did fairly quickly), it ceases to be truly subversive. Elvis was controversial when he first came out, but he was not threatening for very long. He quickly became something that both children and their parents could enjoy together.

I guess if I were asked to choose who best represented the spirit of rock and roll, I would be more inclined to choose someone who consistently questioned the status quo or remained somewhat on the fringe of popular culture. Someone who maybe was never fully embraced by the mainstream. Someone who carried a sense of rebellion and iconoclasm throughout their entire career. As we've both noted, rock and roll is about rebellion, to a large extent.

Commercial success? I never mentioned that.

Okay, something must have gotten lost in translation then, because I swear there was a point in this thread where you cited Elvis' lasting popularity and successes as a significant factor in him representing rock and roll.

This may be the problem in a nutshell. When you are trying to define the spirit of rocknroll YOU HAVE to go with the general qualities that define it.

I think I did, though. I said the general idea of rock and roll tends to involve guitars, rebellion, disrespect of authority and some sort of controversial image. I stand by that and still maintain that Elvis was not the apex of that. Not by a longshot.

The spirit of rock is an artist that best tells it's story, that best explains it. The entire singer-songwriting aspect is a necessary aspect of rock, it's necessary in just about ANY genre. So that doesn't really tell us what made rock R-O-C-K. It's not a special identifier. What made Rock were the performances, the shows, the attitude as you said, the rebellion, the culture most especially made Rock different from Blues, Classical, and Jazz.

That's the element you're missing IMO.

I'm not missing it at all...I just don't think Elvis was the end-all be-all of those qualities, as many make him out to be.

 

[Spike]

oh, Spike I'm not suggesting EP's RCA stuff is a pimple on the BUTT of his Sun stuff, just that I've grown to like it on it's own merits.

I agree that the early RCA stuff was good, from 1956-57. But much after that and the quality gets rather spotty. Col. Tom's business decisions and RCA's production blots out the genius of Elvis.

If anyone's interested, I'd highly recommend Peter Guralnick's Last Train to Memphis; The Rise of Elvis Presley. It is a well written version of an amazing story. I haven't had the heart to read the sequel, which I think is entitled Careless Love; The Fall of Elvis Presley. Anybody read it?

Spike

 

[Martin Q. Blank]

I just went back to the first page of this thread and noticed some interesting things.

First of all, the '50s aren't even mentioned in the first post.

Second...NDF, you picked AC/DC for "overall"! I'm not quibbling with your choice necessarily, I'm just extremely surprised. Why didn't you pick Elvis?

 

[Martha Washington]

re: 'Careless Love'

it's a companion piece but it's sad.
"Last Train" is about the ride up. "Careless Love" is the ride down.
many EP fans were pretty harsh on 'CL' but I think it's very sympathetic and well done.

Elvis delegated.

 

[Martha Washington]

"Last Train..." is the one to read though. It's like Beatlemania but it's only one guy!!!
the great thing about both books is how easy it is to put yourself in EP's shoes.

like THAT would ever happen.
BUT, it makes it easier to sympathize, even with the drugs and the yes-men and stuff.

 

[newdawnfades]

Second...NDF, you picked AC/DC for "overall"! I'm not quibbling with your choice necessarily, I'm just extremely surprised. Why didn't you pick Elvis?

I think Elvis would be an excellent choice, but I happen to consider AC/DC more representative, if you look at the span of their career, of what rock is all about. From their lifestyle, their onstage style, the themes of their songs, their sound, and the energy they put out. I thought they kept faithful to these roots too throughout their career. On another day I might have chosen Elvis.

So now you got to tell us your choice.

 

[Music Wench]

Yea, Martin, come on, fess up!!! You've been such a tease.

 

[newdawnfades]

Martin never fessed up, after all these months...