Am I the only person who pretty much hates Metallica?

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DragonQuest3

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Because it shows they don't care what critics think. I think in theory working with Lou Reed wasn't a bad idea but the execution was just terrible. In terms of consistency I rate many bands higher than Metallica (consistently solid albums that is) including Testament, Kreator, Overkill and I guess even Megadeth too.

I thought it was a bad idea to let the guy sing when all he could do is mumble. I dont kniw enough about Lou Reed honestly to judge his career but lets consider this isnt his first mega embarrassing two disc album. I love noise music and I like the idea of giving a middle finger to your producer and the critics but he couldve put some effort into making Metal Machine Music actually listenable. Instead of becoming a classic work of industrial noise it ended up a complete joke which is what Lulu is. Im all for avant garde type experimental music I mean I love Can, Amon Dull II, The Residents, Throbbing Gristle, Brian Eno, Magma, Pierre Schaeffer, and Stockhausen but clearly those guys knew how to execute such stuff better than Metallica and Lou Reed. I hear Lou Reeds art rock with the Velvet Underground is quite good though.

Still ignoring impact and looking at just the music how can Metallica be considered better than artists like Voivod who both transcended more succesfully into more experimental and artsy styles, and has an overall more consistent output? Again not trying to enforce my opinion this is just how I see it.
 

DragonQuest3

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I don't think they ever purposefully try to piss off their fans. After all you got to sell records at the end of the day. Pissing of fans won't help with that. I think their mindset is more looking at a project like a Lulu, TTN movie, S&M, and saying "this looks like it would be fun to do, let's do it" and then saying to their fans, "we enjoyed doing this, you'll get a kick out of it" sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong. But it doesn't stop them from trying the next project.

If we want to discuss an artists who can change his sound successfully and be consistently awesome though, we can discuss Devin Townsend in his thread lol.

I dont know who Devin Townsend is but looking him up hes a part of the newer metal scene which I dont really care for much. Its not as much a bout trying something different and succeding but trying something different and having dignity about it or being smart. Again I have a hard time thinking they didnt realize wht kind of reaction Id cut my arms and tits off to see Boris Karloff would have. All im saying is I cant see this band in a legendary light as other artists have done what they do better imo.
 

Pappy

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I dont know who Devin Townsend is but looking him up hes a part of the newer metal scene which I dont really care for much. Its not as much a bout trying something different and succeding but trying something different and having dignity about it or being smart. Again I have a hard time thinking they didnt realize wht kind of reaction Id cut my arms and tits off to see Boris Karloff would have. All im saying is I cant see this band in a legendary light as other artists have done what they do better imo.

He released a country album this week lol. Anyway, I don't think anyone would argue that Lars has a very different view of the world than most of us. What he thinks the fans will like and what the fans actually like can sometimes be worlds apart. I bet he honestly thought fans would eat Lulu, St. Anger up. I think a problem Metallica does have today is that they have gotten to be so big, that there isn't someone telling them, "no, this is a bad idea". I guess you could say they've earned that right.
Also we can not forget, those bands didn't write Enter Sandman.....I'm not saying its a good song or not. But there is zero debate it put them in legendary status. That song made them be able to escape the ceiling of the "metal genre" and be accepted in any music circle. Unfortunately, bands that we've all listed didn't get that break while we all may think they should have.
 

DragonQuest3

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He released a country album this week lol. Anyway, I don't think anyone would argue that Lars has a very different view of the world than most of us. What he thinks the fans will like and what the fans actually like can sometimes be worlds apart. I bet he honestly thought fans would eat Lulu, St. Anger up. I think a problem Metallica does have today is that they have gotten to be so big, that there isn't someone telling them, "no, this is a bad idea". I guess you could say they've earned that right.
Also we can not forget, those bands didn't write Enter Sandman.....I'm not saying its a good song or not. But there is zero debate it put them in legendary status. That song made them be able to escape the ceiling of the "metal genre" and be accepted in any music circle. Unfortunately, bands that we've all listed didn't get that break while we all may think they should have.

Sounds like a lot of Metallicas legnedary status really is a result of them selling out :/ Just seems like when you judge these bans musically its easy to see who was actually great and who got overhyped. Im just glad my favorite bands dont have Metallicas attitude. I also have similar feelings about being a Dragon Quest fan over Final Fantasy.
 

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I thought it was a bad idea to let the guy sing when all he could do is mumble. I dont kniw enough about Lou Reed honestly to judge his career but lets consider this isnt his first mega embarrassing two disc album. I love noise music and I like the idea of giving a middle finger to your producer and the critics but he couldve put some effort into making Metal Machine Music actually listenable. Instead of becoming a classic work of industrial noise it ended up a complete joke which is what Lulu is. Im all for avant garde type experimental music I mean I love Can, Amon Dull II, The Residents, Throbbing Gristle, Brian Eno, Magma, Pierre Schaeffer, and Stockhausen but clearly those guys knew how to execute such stuff better than Metallica and Lou Reed. I hear Lou Reeds art rock with the Velvet Underground is quite good though.

Still ignoring impact and looking at just the music how can Metallica be considered better than artists like Voivod who both transcended more succesfully into more experimental and artsy styles, and has an overall more consistent output? Again not trying to enforce my opinion this is just how I see it.
Comes down to preference then I suppose. Voivod is a band I struggle to get into to an extent because they have a sound I'm not used to. I can say though I do think to a ridiculous extent Metallica's influence is overstated. I stand by my remarks about the fact they have made an impact but it kind of bugs me how some act like they are the main innovators of thrash when you have to include a ton of different bands. I would say Motorhead, Venom, King Diamond were the real reasons thrash metal exists on top of the punk movement also. I think the Big Four concept sucks quite frankly as it seems to narrow down 4 bands as though they are the sole reason thrash exists. Could easily cram Exodus, Testament, Overkill, up on that bill too.
 

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^^Without Metallica carrying the banner for metal when the grunge scene arrived along with hip-hop/rap who knows where the genre would be now.

They along with Maiden and Priest would be the 3 bands I think did the most to keep Metal going, until the massive disapora took place in the 90's that gave us more sub-genres in the field than I can count.

I'm not a big thrash fan and have said so many times and the "Big Four" I always considered as much of a marketing ploy as anything else.
 

DragonQuest3

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Comes down to preference then I suppose. Voivod is a band I struggle to get into to an extent because they have a sound I'm not used to. I can say though I do think to a ridiculous extent Metallica's influence is overstated. I stand by my remarks about the fact they have made an impact but it kind of bugs me how some act like they are the main innovators of thrash when you have to include a ton of different bands. I would say Motorhead, Venom, King Diamond were the real reasons thrash metal exists on top of the punk movement also. I think the Big Four concept sucks quite frankly as it seems to narrow down 4 bands as though they are the sole reason thrash exists. Could easily cram Exodus, Testament, Overkill, up on that bill too.
Voivod took me some time getting used to but damn am I glad I did. Lets also consider that Overkill made thrash songs before Metallica. Heck thrash can be traced back to Black Sabbath and Queen. I think Metallica just got an album out first and was well advertised. I think Discharge was actually a stronger influence on most thrash bands. Just seems people listen to and praise Metallica more because of their status as an important and nfluential band more so than because they were actually good musically.
 

DragonQuest3

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^^Without Metallica carrying the banner for metal when the grunge scene arrived along with hip-hop/rap who knows where the genre would be now.

They along with Maiden and Priest would be the 3 bands I think did the most to keep Metal going, until the massive disapora took place in the 90's that gave us more sub-genres in the field than I can count.

I'm not a big thrash fan and have said so many times and the "Big Four" I always considered as much of a marketing ploy as anything else.

The 90s were dark days for metal indeed.
 

Pappy

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Voivod took me some time getting used to but damn am I glad I did. Lets also consider that Overkill made thrash songs before Metallica. Heck thrash can be traced back to Black Sabbath and Queen. I think Metallica just got an album out first and was well advertised. I think Discharge was actually a stronger influence on most thrash bands. Just seems people listen to and praise Metallica more because of their status as an important and nfluential band more so than because they were actually good musically.

- They became a legendary "rock" band via the black album but they would have been a legendary thrash band regardless because of the first four records. I don't think making the black album was selling out. Another important aspect of why they got big is they were more accessible than Exodus, Venom, Slayer, etc. Once you got past KEA, Hetfield's vocal were easily the most accessible voice. They were also better at writing hooks instead of just sheer speed. Better, being the overall consensus, not necessarily yours or my opinion.
- Very important to note. Many more people heard Metallica's records than anyone else s so obviously they had a wider reach on their influence.

I also can't stand the "Big 4". Well I hate Mt. Rushmore lists on any topic cause it always leaves something just as deserving out.
 

DragonQuest3

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- They became a legendary "rock" band via the black album but they would have been a legendary thrash band regardless because of the first four records. I don't think making the black album was selling out. Another important aspect of why they got big is they were more accessible than Exodus, Venom, Slayer, etc. Once you got past KEA, Hetfield's vocal were easily the most accessible voice. They were also better at writing hooks instead of just sheer speed. Better, being the overall consensus, not necessarily yours or my opinion.
- Very important to note. Many more people heard Metallica's records than anyone else s so obviously they had a wider reach on their influence.

I also can't stand the "Big 4". Well I hate Mt. Rushmore lists on any topic cause it always leaves something just as deserving out.

So basically accessibility made Metallica the giants people see them as? Personally ive always hated James's vocals and in fact it kinda reminds me of Nu-metal and Nickelback type voices.
 
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