Sex Pistols.

[Shaggy]

I am so suprised that SP hasn't been talked about in the punk forum. I believe they were the band that started the whole punk genre.

 

[LXA]

The Clash > Sex Pistols

 

[Gabble Ratchet]

^That. I never really rated the Sex Pistols, even after I got their greatest hits album, there's a lot of better punk out there.

 

[snakes&ladders]

One of the best punk bands of the later generation!!!

 

[LG]

Can't stand the Sex Pistols Shaggy, sorry to say that in your thread but it's the honest truth. However despite my antipathy to the Pistols I cannot deny the impact that "Never Mind the Bollocks..." album had when it came out.

LXA got it right, my Clash thread will be up later today.

New York Dolls, The Ramones, MC5 are all considered part of the origins of Punk rock, as I understand the story a smart English producer saw the burgeoning punk scene on the East Coast of the States went home and Manufactured the Sex Pistols. I will let the experts correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[rtbuck]

Can't stand the Sex Pistols Shaggy, sorry to say that in your thread but it's the honest truth. However despite my antipathy to the Pistols I cannot deny the impact that "Never Mind the Bollocks..." album had when it came out.

LXA got it right, my Clash thread will be up later today.

New York Dolls, The Ramones, MC5 are all considered part of the origins of Punk rock, as I understand the story a smart English producer saw the burgeoning punk scene on the East Coast of the States went home and Manufactured the Sex Pistols. I will let the experts correct me if I'm wrong.

LG, I can agree with you & you know me I love Punk! My views may be a tad bit different:

I seen this thread earlier today & my first thoughts were to write how I've Percieved the band as really being what I call the "FAKE" Pistols but then my wife & I went to do our usual Saturday shopping.She's driving down the Thruway & I'm cranking tunes off of the Ipod."Should I Stay or Should I go" comes on & for the hell of it I turned on the "Genious" where it creates a playlist with songs that go with what is being played.The next song was by the Ramones"The *** took my Baby Away" & the following song was..."Pretty Vacant" by the Sex Pistols.A couple more cool songs passed &..."Anarchy in the UK" comes on & my wife & I are be bopping around inside the car.Up next was their version of "No Fun". I was really enjoying those tunes which I always have.

Anyway, here goes...To me I kind of considered them fake & the whole Sex Pistols craze was nothing more than a scam to line the pockets of manager Malcolm Mclaren(& I wouldn't doubt that Steve Jones & Paul Cook were in on it as well). Mclaren tried taking over management of the NY Dolls as their career was starting to flounder but he was really just an advisor. The Dolls were already getting plenty of bad press & Mclaren figured more controversy would mean more money so he tried dressing the Dolls in Red Patent Leather outfits & used a huge Communist Flag in the background figuring that Americans would be outraged by this whole idea causing headlines & publicity. The problem was nobody paid any attention to it & by this point nobody really cared about the Dolls(who didn't really have a political clue of what this was all about). The drug & alcohol use in the Dolls was out of control so they split. David Johansen & Sylvain Sylvain had contractual obligations of the Dolls having gigs in Japan so they went.Johnny Thunders & Jerry Nolan went back to NYC & formed The Heartbreakers with ex Televison guitarist Richard Hell.This was probably the biggest influence on the Sex Pistols especially Richard Hell's look of a dress shirt with the sleeves ripped off & sporting a tie around his neck(he also used the ripped tshirt & safety Pin look during this time) which predated the Sex Pistols by a couple of years. They played straight ahead rock & roll with plenty of energy similar to the Ramones who were also just starting out although the difference between the 2 was the Heartbreakers also used earsplitting guitar solos via Thunders & Walter Lure.Unfortunately egos between Hell & Thunders didn't mix well & before long Hell was out(& formed the Voidoids) & Thunders remained.Meanwhile, Mclaren had a close watch on this fast rising NYC scene with Richard Hell & the Voidoids,Ramones,Television,Johnny Thunders & the Heartbreakers, & Patti Smith(to name a few) & figured he'd cash in on the mistakes he made with the NY Dolls. He already managed Steve Jones & Paul Cook in a band called the Strand & one day took notice of Johnny Lydon in his shop sporting green hair & a Tshirt that said I Hate Pink Floyd. The initial plan was to bring in Sylvain Sylvain from the Dolls & even sent him a plane ticket to Japan to bring him to the UK but unfortunately Syl couldn't get out of his NY Dolls deal. He even sent Mclaren his creme colored Les Paul in good faith(they have photos that Mclaren sent to Sylvain in Japan of the members & letters explaining each one's character & the whole idea of the Sex Pistols in the R & R HOF). The plans w/Sylvain eventually fell through & the Pistols started with Lydon,Jones,Cook, & bassist Glen Matlock. The band did some recording & played a few gigs at various schools & small clubs. The band was picked up by EMI records & it seems like the whole plan(in my opinion) was to get money from record companies(A&M Records & CBS also signed them & then dumped them from their contracts before they released an album) than get dumped from the companies by doing vulgar acts such as swearing on a television talk show(which seemed to be staged to me),public intoxication headlines,renting a boat & having the Sex Pistols play while the boat passed by the Queen's Jubilee Celebration. Mclaren had got money from these record companies & the band had yet to put out an album for any of the companies.
He then set up a huge tour with the Clash,Siouxie & the Banshees,Thunders & the Heartbreakers which ended up having most of the gigs cancelled. Also bassist Glen Matlock was fired from the band for at the time the excuse used was "Because he liked the Beatles" but the real reason was he didn't fit the Sex Pistols mold.They brought in Sid Vicious(not because he was talented) because he definitely was a problem child. The band was signed to Virgin Records & released 'Nevermind the Bullocks'. There were always rumors that Matlock was on bass for these recordings as well as guitarist Chris Spedding (who I know produced & recorded their original demos so that rumor is a possibility). More Controversies with headlines for the band was more money in Malcolm's pocket(Sid & Johnny were basically getting nothing) & a tour of the US totally flopped eventually breaking the band up. I can go on & on w/ more details of their career but won't.All I'm saying is that the legend was bigger than the band but let me tell you those songs are a reality & I do love them but if I want real Punk Give me Johnny Thunders & the Heartbreakers 'LAMF', Richard Hell & the Voidoids 'Blank Generation', or Any of the Ramones first 3 Records. I believe the fathers of punk would be the Stooges,MC5,Velvet Underground,MC5,NY Dolls,& even early Alice Cooper

Bucky

(this was only my opinion based on books & magazine articles I've read over the years)

 

[rtbuck]

I will say that when the Sex Pistols did start out in their early days their small folowing did consist of future punkers Billy Idol,Siouxie Sioux,Joe Strummer,Howard Deveto, & Pete Shelley so they did definitely have some influence on the UK Punk Scene & although To me the whole Sex Pistols concept may have been kind of a sham...their followers & diehard fans were not

 

[LG]

Took me a while to digest all the information Bucky but that is what I understood as well. That it was all about image and money for McLaren, more than anything else.

Not surprised that Joe Strummer was interested, I like the early Clash as my favorite pure punk band. What can I say I am a diehard fan of theirs.

To be fair, I'll get some Ramones and play them again, I already have MC5's best CD, but I'll pass on the N.Y. Dolls.

 

[rtbuck]

Pass on the Dolls?????? If you can get by the Ramones & MC5 you should give the Dolls a chance! The Dolls sound is what you get throwing Ramones,MC5,Stooges,Rolling Stones, & Aerosmith in a blender(this is for the first 2 original albums).

NY Dolls Guitarist Johnny Thunders is an acquired taste but I would recommend to try Johnny Thunders & the Heartbreakers 'LAMF' album which has a Ramones feel but there are guitar solos on just about every track.The songwriting is also good but the only drawback w/ the Heartbreakers(which doesn't bother me) is Johnny's voice. My wife loves the music as long as Johnny's not singing but fortunately guitarist Walter Lure sings half of the songs.

Getting back to the Pistols...I read that Mick Jones of the Clash lived for a short time with Sid Vicious.I know he played guitar in Sid's band for a few shows(I believe Max's KC) in NY. I've heard plenty of recordings & I can't figure out how the band could sound so awful because it was a decent band that featured Jones, Arthur Kane(NY Dolls), Steve Dior,& Jerry Nolan(NY Dolls). I have a feeling they probably never rehearsed & with Sid Vicious being pretty out of it for those shows,the band had no choice but to suck. I did read that despite Sid being incoherrent for these shows the fans really enjoy themselves

 

[0000]

^^ You also have to take into account how messed up those guys all probably were at the time, I don't think they got the memo you're supposed to spit it out after tasting the wine