Lemmy hates rap and pop music
- Thread starter That 70s Guy
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Soot and Stars
I AM SOOT!
I don't see that this conversation can go anywhere. It can never be about like on a subject like this. Otherwise it would go in circles. It can't really be about definition of music because even that can't be fact based if someones talking about music. I could make a bold statement and say that if rap isn't music then neither is drums as rap pretty much extracts it's timing beat wise whether it be the vocal or taking a beat for the music to make it fit, slowing it down or speeding it up with their tools in the same way an artist uses different materials from drawing, to painting a piece. I'm not a musician. I'm just a guy on a forum but I'm convincing that creating a rap song takes a great ear for music.
If you look about music as art rather than just craft then the tools don't matter. It's the results. If you look at music as craft then you are part of that audience and all I said is futile. Some people are into the photorealistic side of art and some are into more expressive forms and some like both. It is what it is. Some of us came in, said our piece and left. Others are more passionate about the genre and others passionate about hating. A lot of the facts about the talent itself to do it don't seemed to have been questioned so much so I'm cool with that. The simplest part of my previous post is can you do it? Haven't seen any critics say yes. What it comes down to is there anything anyone can add that could push the topic to a higher level. No, i don't think so!
In this type of thing waiting fore the other party to become silent won't work. 
Otherwise, you are really staying involved in something you will get annoyed with or say you are annoyed with! That seems like internet sadomasochism to me! 
If you look about music as art rather than just craft then the tools don't matter. It's the results. If you look at music as craft then you are part of that audience and all I said is futile. Some people are into the photorealistic side of art and some are into more expressive forms and some like both. It is what it is. Some of us came in, said our piece and left. Others are more passionate about the genre and others passionate about hating. A lot of the facts about the talent itself to do it don't seemed to have been questioned so much so I'm cool with that. The simplest part of my previous post is can you do it? Haven't seen any critics say yes. What it comes down to is there anything anyone can add that could push the topic to a higher level. No, i don't think so!
In this type of thing waiting fore the other party to become silent won't work. Otherwise, you are really staying involved in something you will get annoyed with or say you are annoyed with! That seems like internet sadomasochism to me! Well, I've said my piece but it always cracks me up when someone comes along saying 'if you'd only listen to it more closely or in this frame of mind etc'. I find that argument exactly like the art snob saying 'if you'd only look at that spot in the middle of the canvas more closely or in this frame of mind etc'.
I have heard it since before it was mainstream. know a lot of people who tried to turn me on to it and I like it less now than when I first heard it and thought it was a curious (though lame) take on beat poetry.
Like a lot of popular stuff I really wish I did like it. It would be cool to be able to go to a lot of places that play that shit and actually like what I'm hearing but I don't see that ever happening.
I have heard it since before it was mainstream. know a lot of people who tried to turn me on to it and I like it less now than when I first heard it and thought it was a curious (though lame) take on beat poetry.
Like a lot of popular stuff I really wish I did like it. It would be cool to be able to go to a lot of places that play that shit and actually like what I'm hearing but I don't see that ever happening.
Soot and Stars
I AM SOOT!
Fair enough! This is a "like" convo!
I think both sides get defensive. In the same way you think the feeling of being forced to like it is snobby I think comes along with sting of hearing people try to tell you something you personally connect to has no merit and is shit. Just in general. Everyone thinks it's sensitivity until someone's knocking on your door. Believe it or not while their are kids who listen to rap to try to be hardcore just like some kids use metal that way there's always that guy who listened to the rap song that either cathartically got out his angst just like the mood of metal does. That's pretty productive either way. Then to hear someone reference such a powerful experience as shit. It's a little jarring. In the same way some rock bands senselessly talked about sex, drugs and rock n' roll people and people rocked to it others have dumb fun to rap songs about equally shallow things. Plus, believe it or not some rap actually relates to experiences of violence and conditions that some people lived through and can relate to. It's always nice to hear your experiences related too even if you are out of that. I mean we can talk sensitive verses not sensitive all we want but I do get that part of someone feeling they get kicked in the balls because the music is part of our experience. That's why we call ourselves fans, right?
METALPRIEST
Senior Member
I used to bring this up as a point when the mood hit me, and that is, all music is important and special, as it's all important to somebody.
Big Ears
Music Lover
^ Well they say variety is the spice of life.
The painting analogy reminds me of when I accused some Radiohead fans of being like admirers of modern art. People would go into an art gallery and say they liked a painting, because they were afraid to be seen to be missing something. This was sent up in a Tony Hancock film, The Rebel (GB 1961), where he enters ill-conceived 'art' to a gallery and it is feted by a respected critic and his followers. But, in the end, the so-called art was really rubbish all along.
The Radioheads were upset and accused me of raining on their parade, so the lesson I learned was to leave them to what they enjoy. But, don't ever compel me to listen to Radiohead!
The painting analogy reminds me of when I accused some Radiohead fans of being like admirers of modern art. People would go into an art gallery and say they liked a painting, because they were afraid to be seen to be missing something. This was sent up in a Tony Hancock film, The Rebel (GB 1961), where he enters ill-conceived 'art' to a gallery and it is feted by a respected critic and his followers. But, in the end, the so-called art was really rubbish all along.
The Radioheads were upset and accused me of raining on their parade, so the lesson I learned was to leave them to what they enjoy. But, don't ever compel me to listen to Radiohead!
Soot and Stars
I AM SOOT!
I'm not a Radiohead fan myself Big Ears. I mean I do like songs from them but I don't hear what others do. The phenomenon that you talk about does exist in music or Hell, any artistic merit. Do I think it sweeps a fan base? Not at all but it does exist on an individual level. I think in my case I could say Rush right now. I like them on an even base right now but I'd be lying if I "got" them on the artistic pedestal most fans place them on. I get the musicianship but not the results as far as embedding myself into it. If I came out tomorrow and said "hey, I listened to some Rush and was able to jam out to it for a bit I don't think I'd be a hypocrite or trying to hard. they do have some good riffs but unless something drastically changed in my filter I don't see myself saying "Hey, I think Rush are the most awesome band I've heard" and being genuine!
Big Ears
Music Lover
Rush are a very good example, Soot. They started as a (good) Led Zeppelin copy and became a more complex or intricate heavy rock band. Later, starting with Moving Pictures they became adept at pulling the wool over people's eyes by repeating ideas, but tightening up the track length. Sometimes this worked, but, compared to the early material, it is just not as good. It has become 'cool' to like them on progressive rock sites, but they were never progressive to me.
Soot and Stars
I AM SOOT!
When I judge whether I like a Progressive rock band I still look for a flow in transitions. If I forget I'm listening to the same song it doesn't tend to be for my taste. I guess that's the pop side of me. I pulled up 2112 again after having listened to it only a couple times and I just couldn't hear the symmetry. It could be a matter of replaying it until it sinks in. I'm not sure if that's trying to hard but I always give bands/albums plenty of listens!
My favorite era of Rush is when they developed their own sound more fully. From Caress of Steel to Hemispheres they were quite progressive to me. Yes, they were also very hard rock as well but I don't think the two styles are mutually exclusive.
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