Who Invented Prog? Ask Steven Tyler. He Knows

The Master's Apprentices were probably the 1st Aussie band to explore Progressive Rock, they do "Poor Boy", which is a blues song from 1926, in it I can hear the Blues along with the Rock and other flares this song has. I'm unsure about the date of the song though and I'm even unsure if they were called The Master's Apprentices at that point with the founding member Jim Keays initially calling his band The Mustangs, though I don't even know how long that name lasted before becoming The Master's Apprentices. 1965 seems to be the date stamped for that band.

Many of the early Master's Apprentices songs have a very Garage sound with Psychedelic twists there's even examples of Reversing the tape (e.g. at the end of 'But One Day'), which I think The Beatles started doing with 'Rain' in 1966. The Master's Apprentices had some Bluesy songs though, so they probably got their influence from bands like Them, The Rolling Stones, The Animals and The Yardbirds.

I think in turn Them, The Rolling Stones, The Animals and The Yardbirds had those Bluesy roots, though took on a Rock approach, 'For Your Love' from the Yardbirds interesting enough was when Eric Clapton decided to leave The Yardbirds because the song was too Commercial (or so I read), and felt the Band were moving away from their Blues Roots. Them feat. Van Morrison have those Blues traits depending on the Song - 'Baby Please Don't Go' is a classic example of that, though not necessarily found in 'Here Comes The Night' which seems to be a Slower Ballard Rock song, though I'm not sure what to make of 'Gloria', it doesn't come across as Blues, perhaps it's more responsible for the Garage Punk genre of the 60s, which were later become Punk in the 70s?

I have troubles defining what Progressive Rock is, is it the Progression bands did when moving on from Psychedelic, or are they simply recognised as Progressive because of each song they made? If it's the later then The Rolling Stones had those tendencies where each song would vary from a soft Ballard style to a full on Head Banging song. The Master's Apprentices started a bit differently as they were moving through the Psychedelic phase, though Progressed as the Band moved on to more gentler stuff and by 1970 their classic 'Because I Love You' doesn't even display that edgy music from their mid-60s material.

CP/M User said:

I have troubles defining what Progressive Rock is, is it the Progression bands did when moving on from Psychedelic, or are they simply recognised as Progressive because of each song they made? If it's the later then The Rolling Stones had those tendencies where each song would vary from a soft Ballard style to a full on Head Banging song. The Master's Apprentices started a bit differently as they were moving through the Psychedelic phase, though Progressed as the Band moved on to more gentler stuff and by 1970 their classic 'Because I Love You' doesn't even display that edgy music from their mid-60s material.

Click to expand...

I'd like to know this answer as well.. The whole changing and adding new genre's has complicated the subject, especially when talking with others

on social media's.. I mean does it matter?? It does to some who make sure those who don't know do..

dr wu said:

Good list and I have most of those bands in my collection.
Prog is many things to many people. Those of us who are prog heads constantly argue this on Prog Rock Archives web site which imho is the best prog site on the web.


https://www.progarchives.com/

Click to expand...

Aurther Brown?? FIRE?? Progressive rock?? This is like saying any band that uses a organ.. or a flute is a progressive band.. To me ALL those bands from the 60's would be a progressive rock band!! The Yardbirds??? Really.. And I thought progressive rock started with bands like Yes and Rush..

Slipn said:

This is what makes sense to me..

The list of prog bands.. https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/best-prog-rock-bands/

My head is spinning at the mention of TOOL on that list!!

Click to expand...

Revisiting this concept, I've heard it said that bands are progressive because of longer, more complex arrangements in their songs. That would certainly fit most of the bands considered prog (even Kansas and early Chicago), leaving out latter day Rush and 80's Yes. But then again, they adapted and stayed relevant when a lot of bands died out, you could say they "progressed"

Slipn said:

Aurther Brown?? FIRE?? Progressive rock?? This is like saying any band that uses a organ.. or a flute is a progressive band.. To me ALL those bands from the 60's would be a progressive rock band!! The Yardbirds??? Really.. And I thought progressive rock started with bands like Yes and Rush..

Click to expand...

This idea is discussed and argued constantly on prog web sites like Prog Rock Archives (PA).
PA has different categories of prog like Proto Prog, Prog Related, Crossover Prog Psychedelic/Space Rock for bands that seem less proggy or different than others.
Arthur Brown is proto prog as are the Beatles , The Who, Deep purple, The Doors. etc.
Rush is heavy prog as are Uriah Heep , Porcupine Tree etc
Yes is symphonic prog as are Genesis, Camel, ELP, Renaissance, etc
There are many other categories like Eclectic Prog which King Crimson is in and Psychedelic/space rock which Pink Floyd is in.
This is all explained in detail on the website and each 'genre page' has definitions at the top which goes into these styles. Other prog sites have similar style categories but they dont all agree and as I said this gets discussed on a regular basis.

Ar-Pharazon said:

Revisiting this concept, I've heard it said that bands are progressive because of longer, more complex arrangements in their songs. That would certainly fit most of the bands considered prog (even Kansas and early Chicago), leaving out latter day Rush and 80's Yes. But then again, they adapted and stayed relevant when a lot of bands died out, you could say they "progressed"

Click to expand...

Many prog fans use the longer songs and more complex concepts ro help define prog as well as more instrumentation and mixture of styles etc....but there is still much disagreement on various bands.

Perhaps Paradise Lost by The Herd is Progressive Rock?

CP/M User said:

Perhaps Paradise Lost by The Herd is Progressive Rock?

Click to expand...

Well.....they have some orchestration but other than that I dont hear anything proggy.
I do think you were trying to 'pull our legs' as the saying goes.
That reminded me of the Bee Gees with Frampton on vocals.
They actually called them and others like that freakbeat or psychedelic pop in the mid to later 60's.....bands like The Troggs, The Move , Pretty Things, Idle Race, The Creation, etc.
I have listened to only a few singles by the Herd on you tube. I do have a compilation of Brit psychpop and freakbeat.
My friend who owns a record shop wanted to sell me an lp with Frampton and the band on the cover but wanted $75.

dr wu said:

Well.....they have some orchestration but other than that I dont hear anything proggy.
I do think you were trying to 'pull our legs' as the saying goes.

Click to expand...

There's orchestration, though The Herd I felt were a bit edgier than Pop, though The Beatles were doing that too at a much earlier period, and looking at that Fontana Label certifies it as Pop.

dr wu said:

That reminded me of the Bee Gees with Frampton on vocals.

Click to expand...

The Herd go back quite a bit before Frampton came on the Scene, it was then the Band were charting, I'm unsure how far back they went. The Bee Gees started off in Australia before going over to England and releasing Bee Gees 1st in 1967. At that stage they were following The Beatles musically.

dr wu said:

They actually called them and others like that freakbeat or psychedelic pop in the mid to later 60's.....bands like The Troggs, The Move , Pretty Things, Idle Race, The Creation, etc.
I have listened to only a few singles by the Herd on you tube. I do have a compilation of Brit psychpop and freakbeat.

Click to expand...

From The Underground and Paradise Lost are the 2 charted standouts, they had a 3rd Hit which did better than their other 2, though I didn't like it as much. The other song, which I think was Frampton's Last and didn't chart, though felt it should of is Sunshine Cottage.

dr wu said:

My friend who owns a record shop wanted to sell me an lp with Frampton and the band on the cover but wanted $75.
View attachment 222396

Click to expand...

I think the problem goes back to nobody can define when when Prog Rock began just as nobody can decide if I'm a Gen X or Gen Y person (I seem to be in a Black Hole Late 70s Year) and when these genres are defined, nobody can determine what started that. Brian Wilson states that he created Pet Sounds from The Beatles (Revolver album I think), in that he heard something in that, that gave him the idea for Pet Sounds and then after The Beatles hear Pet Sounds come out with Sgt. Peppers, which sets of a discussion on Concept Albums, only The Beatles make out Sgt. Peppers isn't a Concept Album, it only starts off that way before becoming something else! Though I'm unsure where the Concept is in Pet Sounds ?