Who Invented Prog? Ask Steven Tyler. He Knows

[Vehicle]

First, I must say I'm not a big follower of prog, so I doubt I'll be able to contribute much to this thread. I'll leave that to the experts.

I just thought this might be a topic that might generate interesting viewpoints as to the birth of prog.



Anyway, I've been reading Tyler's book, and here's a quote from him:


"The Yardbirds were so strange and unpredictable.

They could make a pop song like 'For Your Love'(with its minor key) sound dirge-like and ominous.

We're talking f**ked up time-traveling R&B monks.

Gregorian chants! Outlandish Australian wobble-board percussion! Harpsicords and bongos!

The Yardbirds used minor thirds and fourths like alchemists.

They were really the first progressive rock band, with their use of Eastern melodies on 'Over Under Sideways Down' the howling
sirens on 'Happenings Ten Years Time Ago'.

I loved their weirdness and their mystery."

 

[Johnny-Too-Good]

I can see where he's coming from as a musician, but as a listener who was around at that time The Yardbirds were never considered part of the Progressive Music scene. They actually emerged as Led Zep eventually - not quite Prog. I would say it probably started in the UK with bands like Jethro Tull and King Crimson. You could maybe throw in Pink Floyd also, though they were initially perceived as 'Psychedelic'. I was a member of an Underground Progressive Music Club in the late '60s. Rightly or wrongly, at the time we saw it as a kind of 'marriage' between Rock and Classical.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I've always wondered what made progressive bands "progressive".

Is it progressing towards something....or away from something.

Is it progressing, as in changing? Lucifer's Friend was always referred to as a progressive rock band, but they changed styles on every album. Is change for the sake of change enough to be "progressive"?

Kansas has been called progressive. Is it just because of the violin? Chicago had horns, but was referred to as rock-jazz "fusion". Wouldn't that make Kansas rock-classical "fusion"?

Early Genesis was art- or pomp- rock. What made them "progressive"?

Is "progressive" a less restrictive term like "pop"?

 

[Aktivator]

First, I must say I'm not a big follower of prog, so I doubt I'll be able to contribute much to this thread. I'll leave that to the experts.

I just thought this might be a topic that might generate interesting viewpoints as to the birth of prog.



Anyway, I've been reading Tyler's book, and here's a quote from him:


"The Yardbirds were so strange and unpredictable.

They could make a pop song like 'For Your Love'(with its minor key) sound dirge-like and ominous.

We're talking f**ked up time-traveling R&B monks.

Gregorian chants! Outlandish Australian wobble-board percussion! Harpsicords and bongos!

The Yardbirds used minor thirds and fourths like alchemists.

They were really the first progressive rock band, with their use of Eastern melodies on 'Over Under Sideways Down' the howling
sirens on 'Happenings Ten Years Time Ago'.

I loved their weirdness and their mystery."

No they were a blues based band that sampled a few different instruments and styles. No classical or jazz influence, no long songs, no folk influence, no prog like lyrical, no extended, improvisational jams . Maybe the only connection would be that Relf started Renaissance ( a prog band) however he was gone by 1970. Prog Rock was just about Virtuosity and odd time signatures. Nor was it about progressing as a band. It was a style.

Early influences to prog are Zappa's Freakout, Soft machine's first two albums, The Beatles-Sgr Pepper, The Moody Blues- Days of Future Passed, Phil Spector's wall of sound, Beach Boys-Pet Sounds, A Whiter Shade of Pale by Procol Harum, Bob Dylan's lyrics.

By the time the 70'***** the foundation was set but it changed as the 70's progressed. You can say the lines were blurred by some bands that did delve a little into the movement (Queen, Led Zeppelin) but they were never prog bands. You could argue that Pink Floyd was only prog for a few albums but I don't get that argument as I consider space rock a sub genre of prog.

 

[Aktivator]

I've always wondered what made progressive bands "progressive".

Is it progressing towards something....or away from something.

Is it progressing, as in changing? Lucifer's Friend was always referred to as a progressive rock band, but they changed styles on every album. Is change for the sake of change enough to be "progressive"?

Kansas has been called progressive. Is it just because of the violin? Chicago had horns, but was referred to as rock-jazz "fusion". Wouldn't that make Kansas rock-classical "fusion"?

Early Genesis was art- or pomp- rock. What made them "progressive"?

Is "progressive" a less restrictive term like "pop"?

don't confuse progressive music with progressive rock. Its a style (although broad) not an advancement in skill.

Chicago were a jazz-rock band not a fusion band. Difference is they played jazz influenced music but in a pop-song structure. That is the difference.


Kansas was a Symphonic Prog band although they may have gotten away from the true prog sound by the late 70's.

 

[Philmore]

Gene Simmons.

 

[The Deacon]

Here you go, you little newbies:

Album release dates:

PINK FLOYD "Piper at Gates of Dawn" Aug '67


MOODY BLUES "days of Future Passed" Nov '67

HAPHASH AND THE COLOURED COAT Featuring the Human Host...." nov '67 (exceptionally strange "progressive" lp for this time)

ART "Supernatural Fairy Tales" Dec '67

THE NICE "Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack" Mar 68 (my mono UK copy says '67 on the label but this is the copywright date - not necessarily the release date.) To further complicate: I'm told the BOOK on The Nice does not give exact date but says it was in the stores Oct '67.!!!

VANILLA FUDGE "Renaissance" June '68

FAMILY "Music In A Doll's house" July 19 '68

MOODY BLUES 'in Search of the Lost Chord" July '68

TOUCH - SAME (I haven't found exact date. They recorded 67-68, lp released in '68. The only non-UK band here.)

VAN DER GRAFF GENERATOR "Aerosol Grey Machine" Sept '69 (some say Jan '69) first release was US, not UK

PROCOL HARUM "Shine on Brightly" Feb '69 (some say Sept '68

CLOUDS "Scrapbook" Aug '69

KING CRIMSON "Court of Crimbo King" Oct 10 '69


..............
RARE BIRD - SAME Dec '69

RENAISSANCE -SAME Dec '69




Eyes Of Blue - Crossroads Of Time - November 1968

East Of Eden - Mercator Projected - March 1969

Blossom Toes - If Only For A Moment - July 1969

Mighty Baby - s/t - October 1969

Elmer Gantry's Velvet Opera - s/t - June 1968

Eire Apparent - Sunrise - May 1969


..........

It is unanimously agreed that the first clearly all way through prog lp is "Court of the Crimson King".

Others insist it is The Nice lp.


(Pink Floyd at that stage is generally agreed on as being psych, not prog.)

Two , lesser-agreed on lps that should be given consideration as first are Touch and Family.



The first recorded prog SONG is by group 1,2,3 where (Clouds) keyboardist,Ritchie, twists Paul's Simon's 'America" every which way. (This beefwhore the "bookends" lp was even released.)



....

Silly little newbies owe me one dollah for this precious informayshun.

 

[E-Z]

I don't know enough about the origins of the progressive rock genre to say with any authority about it as a genre in it's own right although as a 13 year old music fan in 1970 I would possibly have classed a band like Deep Purple especially during the 1970-73 period with Ian Gillan and Roger Glover in the band as a progressive rock band also the Dutch band Focus who were around at the same time as Deep Purple I would definitely consider as being a progressive rock band and even British blues/rock band the Groundhogs again who were around at the same time as the previously mentioned other two bands during the early 1970s I would consider them as 'slightly progressive' because the band incorporated progressive rock elements in to there two early 1970s albums Thank Christ For The Bomb & Split in 1970 & 1971 respectively. Progressive rock to me was usually defined by long fast paced songs played with a lot of technical ability by all the band members although that is my definition of early 1970s progressive rock music and probably not the strict definition of what progressive rock is or was.

 

[That 70s Guy]

Pink Floyd

 

[OldSchool47]

Rubber Soul (1965) is progish. Does this make John the 1st prog musician?