Kurt Cobain

[newdawnfades]

That was not my point. My point was the show and performances they do. Sales dont really mean much now-a-days, but thats a differecnt topic. By connect im talking about that emotion of cobains, poeple of america connect with it, i dont.

I don't think you can speak for whatever country you're from.

You have another point also, and thats Nirvanas angry feel, but im really not a very angry person, i dont connect with it.

Well it's not simple anger. It's a complex set of emotions from disenchantment, frustration, sadness, depression, numbness, self-loathing, apathy. A range of emotions which many young people can readily relate to.

i can see the appeal it would have to a canibis enthusiast, but id rather get that appeal from more...in depth music.

You mean 'in depth' from a technical point of view, but depth of music has more to do than using complex chord patterns. It could be clever use of lyrics, or vocal inflections and melody, or a complex musical arrangement.

I thought Cobain's use of lyrical repetition was actually quite clever and took real talent to pull off without sounding redundant. He did this successful by changing his vocal inflection with each repeating lyric, a subtle and skillful touch.

I would listen to the song Dumb and in the end when he keeps repeating "I think i'm dumb", there's a reason why it doesn't sound monotonous. It all has to do with his vocal skills and subtle fluctuation in delivery.

Listen to Nirvana's Unplugged sessions. The guy had real vocal talent, and it was impressive that they left all of their hits out and still came up with a great set. They had a great deal of talent, which is underrated by the entire grunge phenomenon and disenchanted youth like yourself.

Obviously you have a very guitar-centric attitude and this precludes you from picking up other complexities in music. You discount lyrics and vocal artistry entirely because of your love for guitar work, so how could I expect you to properly appreciate vocalists like Cobain, Morrison, and even Gilmour/Wright?

so we have come to the agreement that floyd is the best i would assume, for this genre of emotion. leave it at that and go make a floyd thread.

I didn't say they were the best, but they were highly aware of ambient and subtle significances in their music, which elevated their songs greatly.

 

[AboutAGirl]

Nirvana's lyrics take intelligence. They take as much intelligence as anybody's lyrics.

If Nirvana had strived to be "more" by your definition of what music must be, then they would not have been half as good. There is room in music for all styles and I wish there were more people with the talent and skill enough to do what Nirvana did, kick everybody's butt. Nirvana isn't lacking a single thing, their music is dynamic and interesting. If they had been boring wankers and decided to be like everybody else, play things that were "technically good" then they probably wouldn't have been good at all. That's exactly like telling Dylan to sing well and stop singing intellectual songs.

 

[TheEvilErk2008]

My father, who has been a Pink Floyd fan longer than you guys garunteed, is a perfect example of my point. The first time he heard nirvana playing in my brothers car he said what is this **** and why do they have to scream and play so incoherently (not a direct quote so dont base opinions off it). The first time he heard dream theater, he immediatly liked it and thought them very much like floyd, he loves them. Unlike me, He is musically untalented, but even he could see the level of emotion that each had. My drummer was the same way. If its not a competition of skill, then its a comparison of what we can connect with them.

Why did Nirvana gain popularity here in the states? Because of they introduced a new style that was angry and stoned (and whatever other emotions you so wonderfully concluded) at the same time, and americans took this cacophony and made it popular because they wanted to express themselves. But this had a effect of causeing a wave of grunge and so has shaped music forever.

Dream theater did not gain popularity because its messages were complex, barried in metaphor. It takes time and musical appreciation to desipher.

For the same argument that TV melts our minds because it does not make us think, I beleive nirvana does the same. For the same reason a trully good book becomes a forever charished time piece, i like Dream Theater.

TV is quite appealing, isnt it?

 

[newdawnfades]

Oh, so you are right because your dad agrees with you? Okay, i'll take that under advisement.

 

[AboutAGirl]

Your argument is laughable. Wow, so a couple of people you know don't like Nirvana? And now you're making assesments on the whole scene?

For that argument to have any weight what-so-ever you have to also consider the view points of the people who LIKE Nirvana. There is absolutely no point of view that can't be made to seem false when you only ask the people who disagree with it.

Appealing my ass. Nirvana makes me think. Don't tell me Dream Theater is great because they didn't get popular. Nirvana became huge because they captured the hearts and souls of hundreds of people. They epitomized the disillusionment that many people felt. You can't shrug that off, people do feel legitimate disillusionment and pain, and the argument that "kids have great lives, they're just dumb" is ridiculous, most people's lives look great from the outside. Just because you can't relate to Nirvana's meanings and their style doesn't mean that it's a bad or inferior style. I rarely relate to Mozart's style but I don't claim he should be stripped of his status. For you Dream Theater's deep meanings and performance strikes your intellectual brain. For me, Nirvana does that. If you don't believe me I'll right some essays on the deep intellectual meanings of Nirvana and their song structures.

peace & love

 

[Martha Washington]

well, I'm an old guy and I always liked them.
unlike many, I don't see them as 'Leaders' of grunge but as dedicated followers of what we were calling 'indie bands' cause everybody got tired of the word 'punk'

I think 'grunge' was like 'flower power'
it was more about selling accessories than about the music.
now, I've nothing against accessories or the label 'grunge' for that matter.
to me labels help people find what they want and I'd like to think that's a good thing.

I think 'punk' is the word I want to bring to the table. There's a great movie called 'Punk Attitude' and Henry Rollins refers to grunge as 'rock bands who liked punk'.
I think there's a lot to that.

you can't make people like 'punk'
I know Nirvana fans who don't think of them as 'punk' well, they really aren't.
I'm just saying that it's an element of their sound and that it turns a lot of people off.

 

[Martha Washington]

and I'd also like to say how important I think Sonic Youth is to Nirvana.
no Sonic Youth, no Nirvana. Sure, Kurt Cobain had great songs and they had their own sound but I think people forget just how ga-ga many bands went over what Sonic Youth was doing. I think Nirvana is clearly among that number.

 

[Martha Washington]

but, all in all I think Nirvana broke out because they deserved to break out.
a lot of people discover what they're missing when they find it.
Nirvana is a touchstone band and it really doesn't matter if people like them or not.

the damage has been done.
YAY, damage!

 

[newdawnfades]

I just asked my dad about Nirvana and he said i'm right. So it's settled, end of discussion.

 

[Martha Washington]

I just asked my dad about Nirvana and he said i'm right. So it's settled, end of discussion.

(martha lays a boquet of flowers on the thread, wipes a tear from the eye and remembers)