KISS (Official Thread)

Lynch

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I've been playing Music From The Elder (1981) a lot lately! I have always liked this album, even dating back to the early 80's when I first got the album, I really dug it. A truly underrated album of theirs, probably the band's most underrated album. The album was both a commercial and a critical flop. However, it definitely has a 'cult status' among many die-hard fans. I remember many fans talking about the album during the early-to-mid 1990's when the band was doing their KISS Konvention tours. Thankfully the fans showed so much love for the album because the band included one of the songs on their Unplugged show, A World Without Heroes.


Anyway, back in the early 80's, when I was still a kid, I used to play this album (among every other KISS album) a LOT when I was playing Ultima II, a Dungeons and Dragons style game on my old Apple IIe. So, along with the memory of playing The Elder while playing games with a medieval theme, I am now playing Skyrim and playing this album in the background brings back memories for me, as well as the album theme really fits with the game.


Music From "The Elder" (1981)

View attachment 24889


Track Listing:

Side A:
1. The Oath
2. Fanfare
3. Just a Boy
4. Dark Light
5. Only You
6. Under the Rose

Side B:
1. A World Without Heroes
2. Mr. Blackwell
3. Escape from the Island
4. Odyssey
5. I
6. Finale

Music From "The Elder"

The_elder_album_cover.jpg

So, I have just finished listening to both releases of this album on CD. The original which has the PROPER damn track listing and proper track order, this is the version that I have known since I first got this album back in the early 90's.

Then I listened to the "remastered" version that came out in 1997. I have not understood why they changed up the order on this. It doesn't flow the same and it doesn't make any sense.

Original track listing:
1. The Oath
2. Fanfare
3. Just a Boy
4. Dark Light
5. Only You
6. Under the Rose
7. A World Without Heroes
8. Mr. Blackwell
9. Escape from the Island
10. Odyssey
11. I
12. Finale

Remastered track listing:

1. Fanfare
2. Just a Boy
3. Odyssey
4. Only You
5. Under the Rose
6. Dark Light
7. A World Without Heroes
8. The Oath
9. Mr. Blackwell
10. Escape from the Island
11. I


For the love of God, can someone, anyone, please share some insider secret as to why bands do this shit?

This is the only album that I am aware of with KISS doing it, but plenty of British invasion bands did this, hell, they had completely separate albums for the US and the UK, different names in some cases, and completely different track listings. Also a lot of hard rock bands in the 80's and early 90's did this with US vs Japan releases. This isn't even the different country relase though, this is US vs US ... original vs remaster, reorder, remix and readjust. It drives me nuts. The time stamps also don't match up, I don't think there is one track that is the same length on both versions, although there are 2 tracks that are only 1 second off.

*sigh*

just venting. Seriously though, I'd love to hear some honest opinions on question.
 

Lynch

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41 years ago today (07/31/77), KISS released Love Gun as the second single from the album of the same name:

37998756_1992340734160459_2640611550745853952_n.jpg
 

Contrarian1

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Music From "The Elder"

The_elder_album_cover.jpg

So, I have just finished listening to both releases of this album on CD. The original which has the PROPER damn track listing and proper track order, this is the version that I have known since I first got this album back in the early 90's.

Then I listened to the "remastered" version that came out in 1997. I have not understood why they changed up the order on this. It doesn't flow the same and it doesn't make any sense.

Original track listing:
1. The Oath
2. Fanfare
3. Just a Boy
4. Dark Light
5. Only You
6. Under the Rose
7. A World Without Heroes
8. Mr. Blackwell
9. Escape from the Island
10. Odyssey
11. I
12. Finale

Remastered track listing:

1. Fanfare
2. Just a Boy
3. Odyssey
4. Only You
5. Under the Rose
6. Dark Light
7. A World Without Heroes
8. The Oath
9. Mr. Blackwell
10. Escape from the Island
11. I


For the love of God, can someone, anyone, please share some insider secret as to why bands do this shit?

This is the only album that I am aware of with KISS doing it, but plenty of British invasion bands did this, hell, they had completely separate albums for the US and the UK, different names in some cases, and completely different track listings. Also a lot of hard rock bands in the 80's and early 90's did this with US vs Japan releases. This isn't even the different country relase though, this is US vs US ... original vs remaster, reorder, remix and readjust. It drives me nuts. The time stamps also don't match up, I don't think there is one track that is the same length on both versions, although there are 2 tracks that are only 1 second off.

*sigh*

just venting. Seriously though, I'd love to hear some honest opinions on question.


Ya from what I understand the tracks In the remastered version are the way they were originally meant to be.

The record company at the time of the original relaese arranged the songs (against the band's will) because they thought they could make the album more appealing (they didn't believe a concept album was the right move for kiss), for example they put the oath first because it was a heavier song.

That's all, just a conflict of ideas of how the track list should be arranged. Refer to the remaster for Lisa's original vision.
 

Lynch

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Yeah, I've heard that story as well. Hard to know what's real and what is just a 'story'. It's hard to know for sure, especially considering that it was also supposedly written with a movie in mind and that obviously never happened.

I just know that for me, the RM listing doesn't flow correctly at all, other than Only You / Under the Rose which are in the proper sequence.
 

Contrarian1

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I grew up a big KISS fan, most of my love for music came from an interview I heard when I was like 12 from Gene Simmons where he basically said: "Be a fan of music, not just of a band, listen to the people that influenced your favorite bands and the people that influenced them, its a much deeper experience".

So I've actively been a fan of music ever since.

As for KISS, my favorite albums are the first 3.

220px-Kiss_first_album_cover.jpg

KISS (1974)

220px-Cover_hth_large.jpg

Hotter Than Hell (1974)

220px-Dressed_to_Kill_%28album%29_cover.jpg

Dressed To Kill (1975)

In just over a year the band put out the foundation for the rest of their entire career, and the top 3 albums they ever did in my opinion. the early albums to me are like the first 3 James Bond films, they were original and set the pace.
I like the style of the early albums, an extension of the 50's rock'N'roll era but with cool guitar licks and a little more attitude.
The first three studio albums sound grittier and rawer than the cleaner sounding albums that followed, and even have more of a whole live feeling to me. All of the songs from the first three albums ended up on ALIVE! which was their most successful album probably to this day, which is basically a best of album, all from the first 3 releases.

In my opinion after the success with ALIVE! Destroyer felt to me like the band were trying to move towards commercialism and mainstream "arena rock" status. I like songs from Destroyer but that was when you had other musicians coming in to play parts and other writers coming in to write. Bob Ezrin was the kind of producer that was really pushing KISS to be different than what they were. He added piano parts and choirs and had session musicians play parts that he felt the band couldn't play. This style of producing became the norm for KISS through out the rest of the 70s, 80s and 90s. They would almost never write songs together again, and relied heavily on outside writers and outside musicians to shape their albums. They began trying to cast a wider net and lost some of their charm. Then they really started selling out and focused on toys and lunch boxes maybe a little more than trying to write a cool jam.
The original KISS really started coming apart with Destroyer.
They were trying to appeal to everyone from your grandmother to your grandkid, where as the first three albums are more true to the artistry and musicianship of KISS (I know I'm stretching when I say "Artistry and Musicianship")
I like the less produced KISS, I like the charm of the early stuff, it sounds more authentic. It's even heavier, songs like Strange Ways, Goin Blind and Parasite, and those to me are of the strongest songs they ever wrote.

My favorite song from each album:

It's hard to pick, I really love 100,000 years but I gotta go with Black Diamond from KISS (1974)
It became a live staple and has probably the best vocal Peter ever did:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0nNZ5wAWZE

My favorite KISS albums is Hotter Than Hell (1974) and picking a favorite song is hard to do, but again I have to go with a Peter tune, Strange Ways just has the coolest riff and vocals from the whole album and the guitar solo is awesome and sounds nothing like Ace ever did before or since and is probably one of my favorite KISS songs period:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zod3TQJ3D1g

For Dressed To Kill (1975) I have almost a tie between C'mon and Love Me and Rock Bottom but I'm going with the former, I like Paul's vocal, the lyrics, the guitar playing and again its one of my top KISS songs:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjMYTRJxXOQ

Now I'm not saying I don't like any other KISS stuff, I like lots of KISS music, even stuff from albums like Unmasked (1980) and Hot In The Shade (1990), just for me, the old stuff is the cream of the crop.
 

RockshotsPhotos

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Kiss(1-25-1984(c)BillO'Leary)005.jpg
Rare shot capturing the (second or third?) time Gene's hair caught fire back in Denver 1984.
Roadies came rushing out with wet towels to extinguish burning hair.
Read about this incident later on in one of the US rock magazines.
(c)Bill O'Leary/TimelessConcertImages.com
 

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