"Jugulator" is a better Judas Priest album than "Nostradamus"-Ripper Owens

[DaKillerWolf]

Seeing that Tipton/Downing were doing Priest's writing during the Ripper-era and they weren't letting Owens write squat for lyrics or music, you're really blaming the wrong guy for "that industrial influenced wanna be modern metal kiddie radio fare."

If the Tim Owens albums proved anything, it was that Tipton/Downing were better off with Halford's songwriting contributions.

The Iced Earth thing I've discussed on other forums before. He wasn't a good fit with them. However, Iced Earth is partly responsible and either those guys or their management were a little naive.

I think Iced Earth were mostly concerned with dollar signs and figured that getting "the guy who used to sing in Judas Priest" would somehow give them more album sales, more press and maybe even a new (major) record deal overnight. It didn't matter to them whether or not Ripper was compatible.

When their career didn't take off like they had hoped with a big-name singer in the band and when they noticed their album sales had stayed about the same, they booted his ass and brought in someone who was a safer/better fit.

Whatever...I'm not blaming him solely for those albums being poor. I never said anything that placed blame on anyone but I don't like his wanna be "brutal", as he called it once, vocal performance in either bands ..he can't hold a candle to either vocalist, IMO. The song writing reflects that fact and I don't think Ripper is a big name ..he has some notoriety
from replacing Rob and then Matt both of which failed miserably in MANY peoples eyes (and ears) .

I see you see everything in $$$ which is typical of media but I seriously doubt that is Iced Earth's / Jon's sole reason for doing ANYTHING musically or he would have been doing AOR flavored radio friendly/ and or trendy crap from the beginning or at least by now

BTW, It's obvious that money was the motivation for JP's jump on to the industrial flavored/ kiddie radio trend of the week bandwagon . Rob's return fixed that w/ the far superior Angel of Retribution album.

Bottom line ..you have your opinion ..(right or wrong)

and I have mine (right or right)


Over and out

 

[Lynch]

I also agree that Demolition was a better album. I may have to spin Jugulator today.

I haven't listened to either album in a while. I think the last Ripper album I listened to was one of the two live albums (London I think)

I may have to spin both tonight. Get some of that lesser known JP some love.

 

[Lynch]

I have never heard "Jugulator"

really!? It was the first non-Rob Halford album by JP. Honestly, it's really a pretty decent album, as is Dehumanizer, but it's not the same. JP almost re-hit a personal metal pinnacle when they recorded/released Painkiller back in '91. I've seen plenty of people that consider it to be either their best and heaviest album ever, or at least in the top 2 or 3.

So replacing Halford's voice was going to be the first and hardest thing to do. They found Owens who is NOT Halford, but he did do a decent enough job to put out a couple of good studio ~and~ a couple of live albums. If you don't have any, I'd suggest taking a peek at them on YT or elsewhere.

I agree with what Aero said about the biggest thing that JP was missing when Halford was gone was his songwriting contributions.

I didn't like "Nostradamus",it was one of those WTF albums.

When I first heard it, I liked some of it, and other parts of it I was like . After listening a few more times, it grew on me. It's NOT typical JP so for anyone expecting that, they'd definitely be disappointed. It was interesting to see them do it and I know that it meant a lot to the band to be able to record something like that, so I raise my glass to them and say "thanks for something new and different", but at the same time, I wouldn't want to see Nostra Part2.

 

[Cosmic Harmony]

I think "Nostradamus" is better myself....but I think "Angel of Retribution" is even better than that.

 

[Lynch]

^^^ agreed, I really liked Angel of Retribution!

 

[DaKillerWolf]

I think "Nostradamus" is better myself....but I think "Angel of Retribution" is even better than that.

Agreed ..both are way better IMO .Both Jugular and Demolition have some decent songs on them and I even saw them live w/ Ripper but for him to try to act as though his stuff ( the stuff he was on ) was better Judas Priest material is not only wrong it's pretty damn arrogant.

 

[Riff Raff]

Rippers stuff was way way better then Turbo to be fair to him, had he said that it would be really hard to argue given Turbo was a pretty mediocre album even though I can't say I really hate it.

 

[aeroplane]

I see you see everything in $$$ which is typical of media but I seriously doubt that is Iced Earth's / Jon's sole reason for doing ANYTHING musically or he would have been doing AOR flavored radio friendly/ or trendy crap from the beginning or at least by now

BTW, It's obvious that money was the motivation for JP to jump on the industrial flavor/ kiddie radio trend of the week bandwagon . Rob's return fixed that w/ the far superior Angel of Retribution album.

Rob Halford's return to Judas Priest had nothing to do with money? If you say so.

Iced Earth never had a record of theirs sniff the album charts in the United States until Ripper Owens came along. Yet both records he did with Iced Earth actually charted in the US, which was a first for the band.

That doesn't mean those albums are good, and I'm not saying they are, nor did I say it above. But I think that simple fact says all anybody needs to know about Iced Earth's motivation for bringing in Tim Owens.

Successful in Europe but not making the impact in the US that you'd like? Bring in a vocalist that most people have actually heard of before. Seeing that their previous singers were guys with no real track records outside of Iced Earth. Why else would it take them 15-something years and multiple recordings released before they actually started to make a dent commercially?

I'm not dogging Iced Earth, but you'll be hard pressed to convince me that those guys didn't use Tim Owens just to help them get a leg up commercially, since people knew him from Judas Priest, and drop him when they were through with him.

Of course I was glad when Rob came back. I'm probably the only one in the world who liked Loch Ness from Angel of Retribution and Painkiller was my favorite Priest record.

 

[aeroplane]

but for him to try to act as though his stuff ( the stuff he was on ) was better Judas Priest material is not only wrong it's pretty damn arrogant.

It also makes him no different than any other replacement vocalist in the history of rock or metal.

I don't know about you but I haven't heard too many short-term, temp or replacement vocalists say something like, "Damn, I was awful, I really killed that band. I set them back ten years and it was embarrassing."

Every replacement singer I've ever seen give quotes about his time in a certain music group has said "we made a really good record (or a few good records) but I saw the writing on the wall when I heard they started talking to their previous singer again."

 

[Riff Raff]

Have to agree he comes across as rather arrogant, personally I think every single Halford album shits on the 2 Ripper Owens albums.