The MOST "Over-Rated" band(s)..... EVER.

[ComfortablyNumb]

Adding more notes is exactly what makes music more complex? And no, it doesn't make the music good necessarily but that wasn't the aim of that arguement, it was to suggest that Radiohead's music 'does' have substance.

As for what makes a band good I think that revolves around people liking it. I mean you may not like a band or a song but if a lot of people who know a lot of music really like it then there is a good chance it's good music.

Eg. Genesis; despite Sal's best efforts I cannot stand their music but I know that they have a huge fan base who know a lot of music and they don't just like Genesis but consider them the best band ever. You really have to respect that.

Same goes for Radiohead. There are a lot of people, like me, who hold them in the highest regard, that must count for a lot.

Taste is subjective no matter what. Just because there are many people that share the same taste in music as you and like a band that you do not like does not make that band a good band. If the amount of people liking a band or artist makes them good then take a look at what is currently popular. Does that make it good? You may call what is popular today shit, but to the people who listen to it it is the best thing around, but that still does not make them good.

IMO Radiohead is far from complex. Also adding more notes is just a part of making complex music. Radiohead is IMO an overrated band held in high regard for some unkown reason. They have a few good songs, but nothing special.

 

[Riff Raff]

Same goes with people disliking music saying that musics crap, thats not necessarily the case either.

 

[Fisha]

Taste is subjective no matter what. Just because there are many people that share the same taste in music as you and like a band that you do not like does not make that band a good band. If the amount of people liking a band or artist makes them good then take a look at what is currently popular. Does that make it good? You may call what is popular today shit, but to the people who listen to it it is the best thing around, but that still does not make them good.

IMO Radiohead is far from complex. Also adding more notes is just a part of making complex music. Radiohead is IMO an overrated band held in high regard for some unkown reason. They have a few good songs, but nothing special.

As for the pop thing, that's why I included the line about people who know a lot of music. 95% of pop fans have no wider base in musical knowledge than what comes on the radio and no sooner does a new song come out than they change their 'all time favourite song' they can hardly be considered a knowledgeable collective of people.

And no adding more notes is exactly what makes a song more complex. The more notes and the more 'different' notes is exactly what makes a song complex. By definition something that is complex is 'complicated in structure' the more notes there are the more complicated the structure of the song, that's a fact.

I mean what would you consider complex then?

Also who is overrated can't purely be matter of personal preference. If I say the Beatles are over rated it doesn't mean they are it just means I'm an idiot who doesn't understand the true value of their music.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

As for the pop thing, that's why I included the line about people who know a lot of music. 95% of pop fans have no wider base in musical knowledge than what comes on the radio and no sooner does a new song come out than they change their 'all time favourite song' they can hardly be considered a knowledgeable collective of people.

And no adding more notes is exactly what makes a song more complex. The more notes and the more 'different' notes is exactly what makes a song complex. By definition something that is complex is 'complicated in structure' the more notes there are the more complicated the structure of the song, that's a fact.

I mean what would you consider complex then?

Also who is overrated can't purely be matter of personal preference. If I say the Beatles are over rated it doesn't mean they are it just means I'm an idiot who doesn't understand the true value of their music.

More notes does not mean more complex. You add more notes, shifts tempos, play in different time signatures, THAT makes the structure more complex. THAT is a fact. Not just more notes.

I think you need to go back and read the part where I said adding more notes is just PART of making complex music.

Also if someone thinks the Beatles are overrated it does not mean they are an idiot who doesn't understand the true value of their music. If you think that then that is sad.

Again taste is subjective. Just because you have a wide taste in music does not mean you have a knowledge about music.

Also saying something is overrated is all a matter of personal preference.

 

[Fisha]

Ok true, shifts in tempo, playing in different time signatures all make it more complex and Radiohead do all of them.

But how something is rated has entirely to do with other peoples opinions, why should what's overrated be yours?

And as for the Beatles analogy, I think they are overrated, do you agree that they are?

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Ok true, shifts in tempo, playing in different time signatures all make it more complex and Radiohead do all of them.

But how something is rated has entirely to do with other peoples opinions, why should what's overrated be yours?

And as for the Beatles analogy, I think they are overrated, do you agree that they are?

radiohead is far from complex. Their playing is pretty easy. Wtf are you talking about with overrated?

 

[Aktivator]

That would be mislabeling them though.

Really? I guess its your opinion but its not mine. Have you heard their live bootlegs or seen them live I think that is where Radiohead shines and shows some of their prog elements. Hey I'm not saying you have to like them that is up to the individual listener. I will also say Radiohead would never admit to being prog but hey Robert Fripp doesn't think he is either.

Prog is not only about complexed music that has always been a myth along with prog is about long songs and solos.

I tend to agree with this write up and description of where Radiohead fits in the prog realm. I've got a few more quotes from other writers who have written books on the subject if you need more.

"Crossover Prog contains progressive rock music that, though 100% progressive, may have a musical connection to popular music-- whether it be the lack of emphasis on extended compositions, or an influence from mainstream music in addition to classical, jazz and folk. Compositions, however, still exhibit a high degree of sophistication, sometimes outright complexity, and the musicianship and virtuosity is often on a par with established Prog acts. Much like their kin in the established prog sub-genres, these groups will incorporate many major parts of what defines prog rock: the fusing of rock with the structures and discipline of more traditional musics, the use of syntheisizers and new technologies, intelligent thematics, and the expansion of the form.

The defining characteristics of Crossover Prog are a pop music influence that is largely vacant in typical prog rock. Songs tend toward shorter, more concise presentations though still reach beyond the typical verse, bridge, chorus pattern. The harmonic, melodic, and rhythmic structures may be more easily digested in Crossover while not losing the musical integrity that a prog listener expects. Whereas Prog Related bands are generally commercial groups with certain prog elements or players that were involved in prog acts, Crossover Prog artists are predominantly progressive with elements of popular music.

The most representative examples for this genre include The MOODY BLUES, SUPERTRAMP, RADIOHEAD."

 

[R. Evans]

I actually dug that bootleg you posted. It's not something I would listen to on a regular basis, but glad I got to hear it nonetheless.
Yeah, and R. Evans, you pull out one song, how about Crystal Ship, The End, Riders on the Storm, etc etc. Oh wait, you decide to choose one "blues" track with simpler lyrics and use it to deny the pure awesomeness of Jim's lyrics in most of the others. But hey, you can like what you want! Overrated would mean that The Doors are given more attention than they ought, but I can list many songs by many different famous bands with a lot more simple, stupid, or plain boring music and lyrics. (maybe I would spend the time to list a few if I actually cared)

I agree with you that alot of bands have inane songs. As I said at the bottom of the post you're taking issue with, most rock lyrics when read as a poem or text, can come across as repetitive and even childish. However since you missed that, I'll post the lyrics to The End which you cited as a example of Morrison's brilliance.

This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again
Can you picture what will be
So limitless and free
Desperately in need...of some...stranger's hand
In a...desperate land
Lost in a Roman...wilderness of pain
And all the children are insane
All the children are insane
Waiting for the summer rain, yeah
There's danger on the edge of town
Ride the King's highway, baby
Weird scenes inside the gold mine
Ride the highway west, baby
Ride the snake, ride the snake
To the lake, the ancient lake, baby
The snake is long, seven miles
Ride the snake...he's old, and his skin is cold
The west is the best
The west is the best
Get here, and we'll do the rest
The blue bus is callin' us
The blue bus is callin' us
Driver, where you taken' us
The killer awoke before dawn, he put his boots on
He took a face from the ancient gallery
And he walked on down the hall
He went into the room where his sister lived, and...then he
Paid a visit to his brother, and then he
He walked on down the hall, and
And he came to a door...and he looked inside
Father, yes son, I want to kill you
Mother...I want to...WAAAAAA
C'mon baby,--------- No "take a chance with us"
C'mon baby, take a chance with us
C'mon baby, take a chance with us
And meet me at the back of the blue bus
Doin' a blue rock
On a blue bus
Doin' a blue rock
C'mon, yeah
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill
This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
It hurts to set you free
But you'll never follow me
The end of laughter and soft lies
The end of nights we tried to die
This is the end

Starts off okay and then just gets lost and makes no sense. He's addressing one person and then later on sings "Take a chance on us". Who's the us? And what is a Roman wilderness of pain? Then he's in a gold mine, on a blue bus, and then suddenly someone is killing his family. Sorry I just to see the connection. Maybe I didn't do enough acid when listening to the Doors to "get" them, because that stuff is way beyond smoking a doob and getting it. It could be that I'm not poetic enough and like my songs to have a point and progress from point a to point b. And have them make sense. I'm too literal I guess.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think the Doors are the most overrated artists in history and you like them. Fine. I'm a huge Springsteen, Neil Young, and Van Morrison fan. Take any of their songs, print the lyrics by themselves and you could probably pick them apart. It won't offend me if you do so, but it won't change my opinion of their music like I know I haven't changed your opinion of the Doors.

C'est la vie.

 

[LG]

^^I like the way both you and Kuaizi have handled yourselves in this little exchange, professional with nothing personal and no hard feelings.

The way I love to see disagreements resolved even if both parties keep their initial positions regarding the bands in question.

gentlemen.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Really? I guess its your opinion but its not mine. Have you heard their live bootlegs or seen them live I think that is where Radiohead shines and shows some of their prog elements. Hey I'm not saying you have to like them that is up to the individual listener. I will also say Radiohead would never admit to being prog but hey Robert Fripp doesn't think he is either.

Prog is not only about complexed music that has always been a myth along with prog is about long songs and solos.

I tend to agree with this write up and description of where Radiohead fits in the prog realm. I've got a few more quotes from other writers who have written books on the subject if you need more.

"Crossover Prog contains progressive rock music that, though 100% progressive, may have a musical connection to popular music-- whether it be the lack of emphasis on extended compositions, or an influence from mainstream music in addition to classical, jazz and folk. Compositions, however, still exhibit a high degree of sophistication, sometimes outright complexity, and the musicianship and virtuosity is often on a par with established Prog acts. Much like their kin in the established prog sub-genres, these groups will incorporate many major parts of what defines prog rock: the fusing of rock with the structures and discipline of more traditional musics, the use of syntheisizers and new technologies, intelligent thematics, and the expansion of the form.

The defining characteristics of Crossover Prog are a pop music influence that is largely vacant in typical prog rock. Songs tend toward shorter, more concise presentations though still reach beyond the typical verse, bridge, chorus pattern. The harmonic, melodic, and rhythmic structures may be more easily digested in Crossover while not losing the musical integrity that a prog listener expects. Whereas Prog Related bands are generally commercial groups with certain prog elements or players that were involved in prog acts, Crossover Prog artists are predominantly progressive with elements of popular music.

The most representative examples for this genre include The MOODY BLUES, SUPERTRAMP, RADIOHEAD."

it is your opinion that they are prog since you agree with someone else's opinion, but just because you contain some elements of a genre does not make you that label.also lose the condescending tone.