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"Hair Metal" vs Grunge

Discussion in 'Rock Lounge' started by Marla 1976, Aug 29, 2019.

  1. BikerDude

    BikerDude Dude

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    I'm well aware of where it goes back to.
    The NY dolls come to mind.
    They dressed like women.
    I love Bowie. His music was great.
    But he often did dress like a woman. Or a whatever you want to call it? It's hair splitting.
    And again. I don't get it.
    What's the point?
    Other than being a provocateur. Which for me is a cop out.
    And I just don't buy the whole thing that if some guy paints himself silver and walks around in assless chaps I'm the one with a hang up for finding that strange. So don't bother with the typical finger wagging nonsense.
    People can push boundaries in a million ways. They are artists. I get that. It's great. And everyone gets to chime in on the merits of it.
    The dolls made great music. But they dressed like a bunch of drag queens. That's a minus for me.
    Or if they dressed up like aliens. Or monkeys or whatever. For me it's a shtick. And it makes it all less relevant.
    More nonsense, less substance.

    If hair bands were as good as Bowie I guess I'd give some slack.
    It's just that personally I never really found any substance to any of the music.
    It seemed like unoriginal cliched regurgitation of tired rock and themes.
    Bowie was genius. And he expanded the definition of music.


    [​IMG]
     
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  2. BikerDude

    BikerDude Dude

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    Actually this all gets me thinking and comments about where the Hair Spandex etc goes back to.
    Here's my take in the large.
    Rock and Roll (and the beats and folk etc) began in response to a supremely overly oppressive climate in the Post WW2 era of total paranoia.
    The paranoia and fear resulted in extreme repression. The fake "father knows best" time of the
    House Un-American Activities Committee

    and McCarthy. The effects of this climate altered every corner of society. Everyone was paranoid about anything that deviated from the norm. Doing so could end your career. People could point their fingers at you and frame you as the villain.(Sound familiar?)
    Naturally young people found this climate restrictive and rebelled. (They had nothing to lose so naturally the job fell to them)
    We got Elvis daring to shake his leg around and as expected the squares lost their minds and raged about how rock and roll would lead to all sorts of bad stuff.
    This really was the glory time of Rock and Roll. Not that it was the best music ever made called rock and roll, but it was exactly the right thing for that time and place.

    Let freedom ring! All around the world things went from black and white to color. People in Britain stumbling through the rubble woke up. Everywhere rock and roll was something glorious. It really was. You just had the sense that it was exactly what was needed. It changed everything and people loosened up. It led to the spirit of the 60's where people had the sense that anything was possible and change was a good thing.

    Fast forward and an interesting thing happened as time went on. The whole endeavor started being entirely about pushing the boundaries as far as possible just for the sake of doing so. It stopped being in any way IMO a healthy and much needed change to a situation where the people doing the pushing managed to totally disembowel themselves publicly of all sense and purpose and to become every sort of public spectacle just for the kick of it. It went from "lets shake things up and have some fun" to "who is anyone to criticize some guy marching up and down the street in a wedding dress with a beach umbrella up his butt?"

    And here we are.
    It seems clear to me that things overshot the target by a lot. Several dozen bridges too far. But this is typical. The pendulum never just stops. It has to swing back and forth for a while.
    Just one guys take.

    Oh and by the way.
    I think Hair and Grunge will be a tiny foot note in the overall story compared to whatever is coming next.
    Just not sure how or when that will play out. But rock and roll is like fungus. It rains for a while and like magic it pops up all over. A zillion little mushrooms. The spores are in the soil no matter what happens. Nothing can ever kill them all. It's everywhere. Just waiting for the right conditions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
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  3. Marla 1976

    Marla 1976 Banned

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    GNR at their peak from Appetite and for about 6 years later, they were unbelievably huge... maybe people forget but they were the biggest band in the world... they had like two albums in the top 5 at one point...they pretty much ruled MTV/Rolling Stone/media..
    GNR may have been the last gasp of real rock and roll....Nirvana rock and roll?? I don't think so.
    Grunge was pretty much over by 1996, Soundgarden's last album, Screaming Trees Dust 1996, AiC 1995, Pearl Jam has soldiered on but their last classic grunge album was Vitalogy and that was 1994. The genre withered out quickly, you could feel it after Down On the Upside came out, the enthusiasm for the genre just waned. So given that I'm not sure Nirvana is exactly that influential outside of its own genre which was short lived. You could argue Pearl Jam or AiC or Soundgarden were just as influential but on what I'm not sure, the terrible generic clone bands that followed? What did Nirvana do in benefit of rock culture? I think Kurt turned out to be a martyr because he took his own life. What is Nirvana's clame to fame? The grunge era? Ripping off The Pixies and Sonic Youth? Nirvana is no match for G N R, which is arguably the greatest band in the last 30 years.
    More than make changes themselves, Nirvana just brought those changes to the mainstream. The true innovators were the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, David Bowie, Black Sabbath, Lou Reed, Metallica, Van Halen, Def Leppard, ect.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  4. Breeze33

    Breeze33 Junior Member

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  5. Breeze33

    Breeze33 Junior Member

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    Crikey, some real red lines drawn. At 57, and discovering the brilliance that is YouTube, I am a NWOBHM creation with punk and quo(frantic four) added. Nobody is the best. All rock music, to me that’s guitar based raised to max, is great. I’ve learned that every day is different moods and all genres of rock cater for them. Ultimately I love my maiden, AC/DC, Saxon, on through the night leopard, UFO, Motörhead because I know my record sales and concert going made them. White snake and gillan etc already had the cash. Never trash another, they all try to do it for you. Just pick the songs and artists that grab your insides and make you that demented member of the family they are ashamed of!! That’s when you know you’re following your heart and soul. Zeppelin, purple, foo fighters,skynyrd, scorpions, sabbath, prince (some epic fret burning), queen, gnr and a host of others Kansas, Aerosmith, Styx, Uriah heep, even gun, electric six and fall out boy all have brilliant tracks to die for. Original van halen, sammy Hagar, molly hatchet and Metallica - they’ve all got it. Some more often and tremendous than others. Yep even Twisted Sister. I was so happy to see their set from reading 82 is recorded for all time on YouTube because I was there. I hadn’t realised what I witnessed until recently. Only seeing it did I realise more than Lemmy was on stage!! And the audio of me singing along to the hedgehog song will always stay with me until I die. God love Jackie lynton. All I’m saying is rock has a place for everybody.Enjoy your likes and respect, don’t have to like, all the rest. Tommy Vance was sent to us all for a reason. Love you all.
     
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  6. Aero

    Aero Senior Member

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    I'm curious as to why you think Nirvana ripped off Sonic Youth. I always thought SY was completely overrated and couldn't even play their instruments. Never did understand why they had such a cult following.

    Nirvana meanwhile at least made catchy songs with infectious melodies.
     
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  7. ballroomblitz69

    ballroomblitz69 Senior Member

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    Honey, I think you missed the fact that I'm agreeing with your stance!

    Where did I say Nirvana was even close to GnR? I said Alice n Chains was influenced by them. Listen to their demos and you'll see they started out as a glam band.
     
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  8. Aero

    Aero Senior Member

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    As much as I love it, I think rock and roll was a slippery slope. And yes, people have gone too far. I don't like the gender bending stuff at all and guys like Bowie are so good, they don't need those kind of cheap stunts to attract a crowd.
     
  9. BikerDude

    BikerDude Dude

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    Yeah and he moved past it.
    It was always just meant to "get a rise" out of people to shock.
    Which is a cheap trick IMO.
    "Look at me, Look at me, Look at me!"
    Good marketing but bad art.
     
  10. Magic

    Magic Woman of the World

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    I like how everyone is debating this topic. And everyone has valid points, too!!!

    However, I have to weigh in on this topic. As a music lover, where music has been a huge part of my entire life, I don't pay much attention anymore to the "Labels" (meaning genres) that are placed on music. I like an extremely eclectic variety of music, from classical to extreme death metal and everything in between....except maybe Rap. I never could wrap my head and ears around Rap. I do hear Rap on the daily because I have a young boy who likes it, and that is ok....it's what he is into.

    I have enjoyed listening to Grunge bands as well as Hair bands. I love the guitar driven music of the 80's along with all the sappy love ballads. I love all the AOR bands. That music period was fun. (and so was disco but that's another topic). I love Grunge bands just as much. I really like the gritty, murky guitars. If you are a true music aficionado, you would KNOW that all these music styles evolved from something prior and they led to the evolution of something in the future.....

    Do I honestly believe that Grunge destroyed rock n roll? NO. Music has always been and always will be an ever evolving entity. What will our great grandchildren be listening to? Who knows there may be a disco revival...lol.

    Music taste is subjective........I like what I like and I don't give a rats ass if you like it or not!!! Every day I discover new music. It is out there if you take the time to search and give new things a try. Bands of today take inspiration from bands of the past because they liked those bands.

    If you want to hear Rock n Roll, which is a long way from being dead, use this as a search #rockaintdead. You will be surprised how much rock music is out there.

    It is no secret that Aerosmith is my favorite band. Aerosmith is a band that changed like a chameleon with each decade. Some like the Aerosmith of the 70's, some like Aerosmith of the 90's. It's all a matter of what you like to listen to.

    As far as Grunge bands go, I would say my favorite is Alice in Chains, but I also like Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Mudhoney, Stone Temple Pilots, Bush, Foo Fighters, Silverchair, Dinosaur Jr., Audioslave, Puddle of Mud, Everclear, Nickelback, Creed....and the list continues. Some of these bands you might argue are not grunge. Well, I feel they are and they led to the evolution of other alternative rock bands.

    Hair Metal bands I like: the list is HUGE. I will get the obvious out of the way, bands like Guns n Roses, Motley Crue, Poison, Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Dokken, Whitesnake, Aerosmith, Van Halen, Scorpions, Night Ranger, Pantera. Those are some of the big names and you could argue they are just good ole rock n roll, and I would agree.

    I honestly cant choose between grunge vs hair metal. All those bands were good. I have many many memories locked up in their music. I wouldn't trade those memories off just because someone says "Hair Metal Sucks".............
     
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