You and punk!

[troggy]

To me, the notion that punk rock was rebelling against ''Arena rock'' and ''trying to keep rock and roll alive'' is silly...over blown...and hype....

At least partially true. Everybody has to try and make punk rock about something. There was at least some rebellion against other music but it surely wasn't all about that.

They were rebelling against Arena Rock? - gee, how important and radical and cool was that?



Who the hell cares?

It never had to be important, which is sort of the point, anyway. It was mostly just a bunch of guys going out playing and listening to very basic rock and roll that they liked.

Especially when Arena Rock and the bands that were filling arenas were putting out better music. Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, Kansas, Boston, Kiss, Foreigner, Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, Van Halen were filling arenas for all the hungry rock fans, heck, even The Grateful Dead were doing it too. Most people didn't give a crap about ''"Anarchy In The U.K.", and ''God Save the Queen" in the U.S. in the mid-late 70's.

Yes, by all means let's equate popularity with being good. "Good" is subjective. Anyway, by your theory, if bands like Pink Floyd weren't so hugely popular and mainstream, there'd have been no need to rebel against them.

Punk bands were a bunch of twits.

Some were but you could say that about any genre.

Personally, I could care less what punks were angry about. I was angry punks were putting out crappy music and complaining about ''Arena Rock''.

And I could care less.

 

[troggy]

For me, when I got into the whole Punk thing it was because it was fun & a lot of the music was full of energy & kicked ass.

Which is the only reason you really need. Who cares what they were rebelling against, if they were rebelling at all?

 

[troggy]

yes punk was a distinct movement but it did follow a line right out of the 60's. It's not like the bands that Punk got its influences from bands that were playing long jams, excess long winded songs. Also punk didn't just start on its own with no influence. Hence where did it come from? Most people say it followed the stooges, mc5, velvet underground to the NY Dolls, glam rock(full of prog roots by the way) all bands that didn't have any excess and never stopped having this fun idea(although I'll debate all rock bands had fun). Everyone likes to take the Ramones as the darlings of early punk but it is stated numerious times they were influenced by Iggy Pop Dictators and The NY Dolls.

They were just as likely to be influenced by the Seeds, early Who or even Gene Vincent. The Ramones were playing songs by the Searchers and Rivieras.

 

[troggy]

And that is why I like them, they grew beyond their punk roots, but TRB was another band that did the same thing and they are both considered Punk bands, no matter what other tag is applied.

I disagree about The Clash betraying anything they simply Blossomed into a great band far beyond their early days. And when I saw them live on the Combat Rock tour,,,they were a quintessential Punk band, I'll never forget that concert.

I would agree with you. I'm not a huge Clash fan beyond their first album but I don't really think they betrayed anything. Besides, the early punk scene in New York was broad enough to include bands like Blondie, Patti Smith and Talking Heads.

 

[Foxhound]

Well if you're holding a politcal veiw which basiclaly says that everything is alright the way it is I wouldn't consider that very punk.

Other than that I'd say that probably everything else is

I have two problems with your line of argument.

1. Chances are that the peer group, i.e. other teens and twenty somethings, of a punk band are against the status quo as defined by the older generation. Now it's easy enough to rebel against the older generation; in fact it can be said to be a rite of passage for teens. The real hardcore rebel, however, rebels against his own peer group! Therefore, only those bands that support the status quo could properly be considered punk because only those would be truly rebels.

2. Political opinions are like assholes. Everybody has them. Therefore, how can being asshole enough to have a political opinion constitute rebellion enough to be punk?

 

[Foxhound]

Personally, I could care less what punks were angry about. I was angry punks were putting out crappy music and complaining about ''Arena Rock''.

Some of that Arena Rock richly deserved those complaints though. From your own examples:

Van Halen - I swear I wanted to strangle those buggers each and every time I heard them destroy "You Really Got Me" and "Pretty Woman" on the radio. And why was that lead singer of theirs jumping around like an ape on stage all the time? Too many M & M's or what?

KISS - Come on boys. It really should be about the music. Aren't you taking this rock theatre business not just a bit but way too far?

And Queen, talk about overdone, overblown, whatever. I'm with Syd Vicious there. Opera/ballet was never intended to be for the masses.

 

[Fisha]

I have two problems with your line of argument.

1. Chances are that the peer group, i.e. other teens and twenty somethings, of a punk band are against the status quo as defined by the older generation. Now it's easy enough to rebel against the older generation; in fact it can be said to be a rite of passage for teens. The real hardcore rebel, however, rebels against his own peer group! Therefore, only those bands that support the status quo could properly be considered punk because only those would be truly rebels.

2. Political opinions are like assholes. Everybody has them. Therefore, how can being asshole enough to have a political opinion constitute rebellion enough to be punk?

You seem to be makig it harder to "rebel" then it is. Yes everyone has an opinion but no one gives a shit unless you voice it. And that's what these bands are doing, they are telling us what they think. Any opinon will do so long as it's loud.

 

[Astrid Kirchherr65]

What you talking about Willis ?

FOX:???

'And Queen, talk about overdone, overblown, whatever. I'm with Syd Vicious there. Opera/ballet was never intended to be for the masses.'

QUOTING SID ?? Please ! Kettle calling the pot black !

No way...Queen was awesome...


The SexPistols with all do respect for their contribution for punk were the LAST people to call anyone over blown or overdone !!

They barely could play and their songs were juvenile compaired to ANY Queen song...

what Sex Pistols did was FINGERPAINT
what Queen did was ART !

 

[Foxhound]

What you talking about Willis ?

Please keep the TV references to a minimum with me. I just won't get them.

QUOTING SID ?? Please ! Kettle calling the pot black!

Well this is a thread on punk. And Sid was the real deal. It's a version of an "argument from authority".

The SexPistols with all do respect for their contribution for punk were the LAST people to call anyone over blown or overdone !!

You've got it entirely backward. The very fact that the Sex Pistols' music was so simplistic was what gave them the moral authority to pronounce Queen's music as overdone/overblown. The Sex Pistols deliberately set out to be the counterpoint to the excesses exemplified by Queen. The Sex Pistols were in effect tweaking their noses at the pretentiousness of Queen's grandiose arrangements. "Yeah, yeah, Freddie. You do your 'art'. And we'll do the rock!" And they did. Much more furiously than Queen ever could.

They(the Sexpistols) barely could play and their songs were juvenile compaired to ANY Queen song...

what Sex Pistols did was FINGERPAINT
what Queen did was ART!

Well guess what? It was precisely because of their limitations as instrumentalists that the Sex Pistols were able to make their point, that being that when it came to rock complexity was the enemy of energy - and if you wanted to highlight energy, simplicity was key. "Forget the navel gazing! Just get out there and rock!" And their point was made at the expense of bands such as Queen.

 

[Foxhound]

You seem to be makig it harder to "rebel" then it is.

So whoever promised you it had to be easy? After all, even a punk luminary such as Sid had to suffer for his art.