Your Thoughts on this?

The Beatles

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Yeah yeah yeah, you've said that already. :rolleyes:

It's a standard arpeggio. I bet classical musicians (especially harpists) used the same melody before too. The fact of the matter though is that Jimmy Page took something that had been done before (since everything has been done before), whether by Spirit or anyone else, and turned it into one of the biggest things in music. Much like how the guitar solo just follows the pentatonic scale, the most beaten to death scale in music, and it's acclaimed as one of the best solos of all time.

So, if I take the riff and make it even better, will I be successful? Nope, ill find myself with a hefty lawsuit on my back.
 

AboutAGirl

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What we call plagiarism is actually one of the main movers and shakers in the "creativity" industry. To the victor goes the spoils, people see an idea they like and then the recast it in their own image. You could easily say Zep took that riff from Spirit, but nobody could say that Taurus and Stairway are the same song. In that sense it is influence, not theft.

Heck, just yesterday I read a novel called Carnosaur from 1984, 6 years before Crichton would come out with Jurassic Park. Carnosaur contains most of Jurassic Park's major plot points, including the genetic engineering of dinosaurs through use of a surrogate animal (in this case chickens instead of frogs, which actually makes more sense from a scientific standpoint), and most of the same dinos (or ones that are colloquially identicle such as the Dienonychus instead of the fictionalized Velociraptor and the Tarbosaurus which is the same as a T-Rex). There are even certain scenes which Crichton may or may not have lifted right out of Carnosaur, such as Dodgson's ultimate fate in The Lord World being first presented to Lady Jane in Carnosaur 11 years earlier.

But Crichton is clearly the Led Zeppelin of this scenario. Because as much as I love Carnosaur, Crichton's novel was miles and miles above it; better written, more interesting, more intelligent, and ultimately countless times more popular.

For all I know, Brosnan (Carnosaur's author) stole the ideas from someone else. But hey, at least it's not the same old 'lost world' story that had been recycled dozens of times. Would it be better if Zep went ahead and did the millionth permutation of Dust My Broom instead of borrowing from something new and exciting? As rock n roll as Zep was, their feet were planted firmly in the blues, and all they did was update the blues mentality for a new generation in regards to influence and creativity. Are Johnny Winter, Peter Green, Alvin Lee any more original? It's not about where the ideas come from, it's how you put them together, and how you play them.
 

OptimisticFutureBlues

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Listen closely at :19 seconds. Sounds familiar? It should



Listen even closer at :30 seconds.

I rest my case. Influence and 'theft' is everywhere in music. But you can see exactly what Crue did with it. They just made it more...80's.
 

Kuaizi

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I think it just happens sometimes... look a listen to The Who's "Don't Let Go of the Coat" and then the Indigo Girls "Tried to Be True" (from their first album), almost completely similar!!



I couldn't find a suitable video so this is the best I could find, a version on myspace (thought the actual album version during the song I find myself singing "doooon't let goo of the cooat" throughout LOL)

Indigo Girls - Tried to Be True

Then another favorite of mine, is the close relationship (though it sounds like a slightly different key) between Carol King's "It's Too Late" and Phil Collins' "I Missed Again"





I just think it happens, especially in pop music. Things will get used over and in different ways, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I mean, bands like AC/DC could sue themselves, for writing songs that are pretty much all the same!!
Also, all these new bands these days and their "Shum Shum Shhhhuuuuuuuuum" whiney emo pop could all sue each other too. I mean, what's really the difference between most of the crap out now? :grinthumb

At least Zepp took that chord progression and made a super cool song out of it, a hell of a lot cooler than that Spirit song!
Also I agree that Zepp's "plagiarism" doesn't tarnish or boost The Beatles's creativity status. The Beatles are in the top bunch in that department so that's not really necessary :bow:
 

LG

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This is such an old grievance that has long since been put right. Whether intentional or accidental, either by the management or the band themselves Led Zeppelin I was and is a stunning recording, if they did purposely not give credit to the original authors then they were caught, embarrassed and the next printing did correct that oversight.

One thing is beyond any doubt, they did more with those songs than the original authors by far, and once the royalties were settled the old blues artists were probably tickled to get the checks and the credit for writing them.

I see no connection between this and the landmark case between Harrison and the Chiffons.(Which was a miscarriage of justice and totally ridiculous in my opinion.).
 

OptimisticFutureBlues

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Here's another one.



Rolling Stones - Around and Around (1964)

Change the vocals, ad heavier drums, heavier guitar and change a few parts and you have 7 years later on Led Zeppelin IV

 

Craig in Indy

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Try comparing the chord progressions of Del Shannon's "Runaway" and Neil Young's "Like a Hurricane" (during the latter's verses, anyway - he changes it up at the chorus). They're more alike than Harrison and the Chiffons, IMO.

Is any of that any better or worse than cribbing from pieces in the public domain, especially classical? A very large percentage of ELP's musical themes were note-for-note lifted from dead composers. Certainly less risky legally, but that doesn't make the band's work any more original.
 
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AboutAGirl

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Here's another one.



Rolling Stones - Around and Around (1964)

Change the vocals, ad heavier drums, heavier guitar and change a few parts and you have 7 years later on Led Zeppelin IV


That's more likely a case of sharing a mutual influence IMHO. The Stones aren't the first group to do a 1950s style RnR song.
 

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