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The "Genrefication" of Music is a curse!

Discussion in 'Graveyard' started by Old Dude, Jan 22, 2018.

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  1. Magic

    Magic Woman of the World

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    There are no restraints on artists. Look at Steven Tyler and his crossover.

    A genre does not pigeonhole the "art", it merely defines it........like placing a book in the Dewey Decimal System.

    However, I will agree that there are some genres that really are not a genre....at least not by the text book definition of genre.
     
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  2. Old Dude

    Old Dude I do not suffer fools gladly.

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    You sound like my wife nagging me about watching a football game that I'm really enjoying because she doesn't want to watch it. If you find no enjoyment in a spirited back-and-forth of ideas, so be it. Neither participation nor observation is mandatory.

    I'm always amazed at people who demand that everyone must conform to their own personal idea of what is living. I like to live. One of the things I enjoy most in life is a spirited discussion with people who hold different opinions from mine, and who can articulate their positions effectively. If you want me to live, let me live as I see fit, which includes participating in interesting and controversial discussions. Don't you tell me that I cannot live doing an activity that you disapprove of. Who are you to say how I must live, or spend the years I have left?

    If you don't like this discussion, don't follow it.
     
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  3. Old Dude

    Old Dude I do not suffer fools gladly.

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    When an artist's goal in life is to earn a living by selling his art, and the suits who run the business end of his artistry use categorization and pigeonholing to restrain and constrain the artist's ability to see his art, either in hard copy or tickets to live performances, then those category assignments put major restraints on artists. The rare super star like Steven Tyler might get his label to go along with a crossover experiment. Talk to musicians who can't get any radio airplay to promote their concerts and recordings because the suits have locked them into a particular cell.

    And your comparison to the Dewey Decimal System holds no water. The Dewey Decimal System is clearly and unambiguously defined. There is little to no controversy among librarians over what the Dewey classification is for any book. Musical genres, on the other hand, have no established rules or regulations. There is no controlling authority ensuring that genre definitions are clear or unambiguous. And, while libraries tend to include all the different kinds of books they can get, those who decide who does or doesn't get radio airplay, or who does or doesn't get booked in a live music venue use arbitrary and capricious genre classifications to judge which music is worthy and which is not.
     
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  4. Needs More Cowbell

    Needs More Cowbell Banned

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    A single adjective will not fully describe a person
    A single genre-designation will not describe most performers-especially during the course of their careers
    But using multiple genre-names is acceptable to me to give a description of an act's characteristics. It's certainly more helpful than comparing them to another act which I might not be familiar with as well.

    Of course there are some genre names that are valueless to me such as indie-rock and alt-rock
     
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  5. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff The Kevin Owens Show Staff Member

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    You were telling people earlier to stop with the genre talk and in your words to ''talk about the music''. Bit hypocritical to write that when it seems this thread is kind of expecting people to conform to a certain way of talking about music at least that's how it seems.

    '' Just don't talk about what genre it belongs in. '' ''refuse to play the game.''

    Another example where you're coming across as trying to make others talk music in the way you prefer, not how they want to or prefer themselves. You can by all means do what you will in how you prefer to talk about music but it is just extremely ironic for you to suggest you're being told what to think when that's how a lot of your original post comes across imho. Not everyone will think the same way you do.
     
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  6. Old Dude

    Old Dude I do not suffer fools gladly.

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    You don't understand the difference between a call to action and whining, do you?
     
  7. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff The Kevin Owens Show Staff Member

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    The common denominator is the fact you're preaching how people should think which is what you were complaining about in the other post of someone else supposedly doing the same thing.
    You say call to action as though its a big enough deal where people should suddenly change their mind and language on how they discuss music. Me and plenty of others disagree with that and think people should be allowed to discuss genres/sub-genres as like it or not it will always be a part of music. You can disagree with that too but like I said being a subjective thing you can't expect people to see it the same way.

    Baring in mind being opinionated is a good thing as everyone should be but provided we all are doing so in a civil manner and I mean everyone, no being snide or passive aggressive.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  8. Porch Monkey

    Porch Monkey Senior Member

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    I don't think there is a problem. Dividing music into categories or genres is just an aid to finding what you want. A useful guide, giving you a starting point. At the end of the day, as you say yourself Old Dude, if you really want to know what a piece of music sounds like, listen to it. But if I was just given a band name, I might not even do that. There are thousands of bands out there, and most people don't have the time to sit through it all to decide if it's to their taste. Genres and categories just help you to narrow that list down a bit. You still won't buy what you don't like. I have music that I have yet to get around to listening to properly. I got it on the basis of a quick dip, and found it because it was suggested that it was similar to other stuff I already like. A brief listen to bits of a few tracks confirmed that I would like it, or that there was something about it I really did like. I know I don't like disco music, so it's useful to have that label, so I know to avoid it, and not waste time I feel I can't spare trying it.

    With the rise of music on the internet, I don't think the big record companies hold so much influence nowadays anyway. Anyone can post their music online without going near a record label (or even that word, "record"!). There is a whole other industry happening on sites like Youtube, that doesn't depend on anyone straitjacketing it into any category. But there's a lot of it. How do you know where to start, if not with some kind of familiar reference?

    Long-established artists are having to get wise to this if they wish to continue to sell their music. Things have changed since the old days of "if you don't sign with a major label, you'll get nowhere". You could argue that artists have more choice. And what if the choice they make means they'll garner fewer sales? What is most important to them, their music, or the money they could potentially make? But the choice is there for them.
     
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  9. Old Dude

    Old Dude I do not suffer fools gladly.

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    How many times do I have to point out the difference between a reasonable number of useful categories, that more or less everyone agrees to, and the other extreme, an excessive plethora of categories, sub-categories, and sub-sub-categories that most people don't even agree on? How does it help you find what you want if what you want you consider to be be techno-dance-pop, but the people you're talking to about the music call that music neo-disco-trance?

    I won't argue that maybe a dozen different basic categories are a good thing, for describing songs. I won't accept that 3,478 different categories that no one agrees on is a good thing.

    Why can't people see the difference between those two extremes?
     
  10. Porch Monkey

    Porch Monkey Senior Member

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    Because it is having no effect on their enjoyment of music?
     
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