Johnny Thunders (Ex NY Doll)

rtbuck

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Posts
2,385
Reaction score
69
Location
I live in Buffalo, NY



I’ll never forget my first listen to Johnny Thunders…
I discovered the NY Dolls after seeing David Johansen put on a spectacular performance opening for Pat Benatar. I bought all 3 David Johansen solo albums shortly after the show & although I loved the records the 2 songs I was looking for (Stranded in the Jungle & Personality Crisis) were not on the albums. Some time after that I realized Johansen was in the NY Dolls who I read about but had no desire to buy anything by them. Sure enough both songs were on their 2 albums & those 2 records really blew me away. I always thought Johnny Thunders looked cool as hell on the ‘Too Much Too Soon’ album cover & I loved his song “Chatterbox”. One day I was at my favorite import record store ‘Home of the Hits’ & noticed they had a section of Johnny Thunders records (I never even knew he released any!). I had to get one because I knew it was going to be great. They had about 5 different albums & a bunch of EP’s. One album that stood out was a double record at a good price titled ‘In Cold Blood’. One record was an EP & the other was a live album & looking at the song titles (“Gloria”, “Louie Louie”, “Green Onions”, “Do You Love Me” & a bunch of originals such as “Too Much Junkie Business” (which the title immediately made me think of Chuck Berry’s “Too much Monkey Business”. There was no doubt in my mind…I picked the right album!! I raced home put on the live record and…”What the F@#K did I just buy??!?!!!?”. It sounded horrible & I thought it was so bad I was embarrassed listening to it. He sounded wasted out of his mind, his singing was really whiney, & the guitars sounded out of tune but…there was something about it that kind of peaked my interest a little…



Johnny Genzale grew up with aspirations of being a professional baseball player & from what I read he could have had a shot at it but one thing stood in his way he refused to cut his hair so he was thrown off the team. He took up bass guitar & changed his name to Johnny Volume & after playing with a few bands including the Reign (who released one single) he formed a band called Actress with Arthur Kane, Rick Rivets, & Billy Murcia. Johnny switched to guitar & they recorded some demos. Later, they recruited David Johansen as their lead singer & eventually, they released Rivets, added Sylvain Sylvain, & changed their name to the NY Dolls which was named after a doll repair shop. Johnny had changed his last name to Thunders & the band gained success & notoriety in New York. Soon they received a record contract with Mercury & things were looking up. They received a huge gig opening for the faces but from what I read things didn’t go well. Afterward, Billy Murcia OD’d & the Dolls picked up drummer Jerry Nolan. The Dolls released 2 albums on Mercury records before their downward spiral of egos & substance abuse destroyed the band





I decided to go back to Home of the Hits & try another Thunders album. This time I picked up ‘Johnny Thunders & the Heartbreakers Live at Max’s Kansas City’ & I thought it rocked. There was no turning back & within a month I had everything Johnny released.



After the NY Dolls split Johnny Thunders & Jerry Nolan went back to NY & formed the Heartbreakers with Richard Hell (who had just left the popular NYC band Television) & ex demons guitarist Walter Lure. The Heartbreakers were looked upon as an underground super group & were quite popular on the NYC club scene playing CBGB’s & Max’s KC. Their publicity photo showed the band with blood stained shirts with a caption that read “Catch ‘em while they’re still alive!” Richard Hell wanted complete control over the band & Thunders said that he would never take a backseat to anyone again. Hell tried talking the other members into dropping Johnny but they all decided to dump Hell instead. The Heartbreakers recruited bassist Billy Rath & inked a deal with Track Records. Things were going great for the Heartbreakers but their substance abuse habits began hurting their reputation. The Heartbreakers had a sound that was raw & full of energy much like the Ramones but the only difference was that the Heartbreakers songs also featured revved up lead guitar solos. They recorded their debut album ‘L.A.M.F.’ & it was released in 1977 but the sound was ruined because the members kept going back into the studio secretly & remixing it. This along with the substance abuse caused the band to split although they seemed to regroup throughout the years when they needed to get some quick cash.





 

rtbuck

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Posts
2,385
Reaction score
69
Location
I live in Buffalo, NY
Johnny played a couple of gigs at the Speakeasy club in London with members of the Only Ones & they called themselves the Living Dead. Sid Vicious & Nancy Spungeon were friends with Johnny & huge fans. Sid was set to play the next gig with them but at rehearsal he couldn’t play any songs (even Stepping Stone which he played while in the Sex Pistols.) Before the gig Johnny asked Nancy if she would introduce the band topless which she did & Sid wasn’t too happy about it. Sid was playing wild & then noticed no sound was coming from his amp. The band decided to leave him unplugged before the gig & while he was arguing with a roadie about no sound Johnny thanked Sid & introduced Henri Paul to come up onstage to join the band & Sid just crawled off the stage.

Johnny signed a deal with Real Records & recorded & released a single titled “Dead or Alive” B/W “Downtown” (a tune he wrote while in the Dolls). He then began working on an album which I highly recommend ‘So Alone’. For the album Johnny used Steve Jones & Paul Cook of the Sex Pistols, Phil Lynott of Thin Lizzy, Henri Paul of the Maniacs, Peter Perret, Mike Kellie, & Paul Gray of the Only Ones, Walter Lure, Billy Rath, Chrissie Hynde, & Steve Marriott. The album opens with a stinging rendition of the Chantays surf instrumental “Pipeline”. Other cover songs which appeared were a cool rocking cover of the Shangri La’s “Give Her a Great Big Kiss” & the Coaster’s “Daddy Rolling Stone” which features a great vocal (the first verse is sung by Johnny, 2nd verse is sung by Phil Lynott, & the third verse is sung by Steve Marriott). The highlight of the album is the beautiful “You Can’t Put Your Arms Around a Memory”. A few songs from the NY Dolls days are brought back “Downtown”, “Subway Train” & “Leave Me Alone” (which is actually Chatterbox). The album did really well but the record company didn’t print out enough copies so it sold out & by the time they released more copies the momentum had slowed down.





Johnny reformed the Heartbreakers with Walter Lure & Billy Rath & they played a few gigs. They played a show in Detroit & former MC5 guitarist (one of Johnny’s heroes) Wayne Kramer (fresh out of prison) got up onstage & jammed a cover of the Contours “Do You Love Me”. Thunders told Kramer afterwards that the Heartbreakers were splitting up & asked if he wanted to start a new band. Gang War was formed & the band played several shows & recorded some demos. Their setlist consisted mostly of Thunders originals with a couple of Wayne Kramer tunes including the MC5’s “Rambling Rose”. They also played a bunch of cover tunes including “I Go Crazy” (James Brown), “Around & Around” (Chuck Berry), “I’d Rather Be With the Boys” (Rolling Stones) & “These Boots” (Nancy Sinatra). The shows went over great but it was short lived because as Johnny’s addictions became worse he wanted to cut Kramer’s pay stating that club owners wanted the shows to be billed as Johnny Thunders & not Gang War.





Johnny’s heroin addiction was really out of control by 1982 & because of his reputation no record companies would ever think of signing him. He had a chance to redeem himself & was offered a spot to play on a popular Swedish music TV show. He brought Jerry Nolan & a bass player named Luigi along for the gig but the gig went horrible due to Johnny’s condition as he verbally abused the audience & his playing was awful. The gig was so bad that they never aired the performance & it even made the headlines in the newspaper the following day.

 

rtbuck

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Posts
2,385
Reaction score
69
Location
I live in Buffalo, NY
Thunders kept gigging over the next couple years with different band members including Jerry Nolan, Sylvain Sylvain, Walter Lure, Billy Rath, Tony James(Generation X), Glen Matlock (sex Pistols)& many others. In 1984 he was off heroin for a while & reformed the Heartbreakers once again & one of their reunion shows at the Lycium Ballroom was filmed & recorded for an album & video put out by Jungle Records. Thunders than went into the studio & recorded an all acoustic album called ‘Hurt Me’ which features some great tunes that Thunders had written over the years.

Removed dead videos






1986 Thunders was once again clean for a while, He put together a new back-up band who he called the Black Cats (both members Tony St. Helene & Keith Yon were African American with a Rastafarian look) & he recorded a great album titled ‘Que Serra’ which rocked out. He had help on the album from Stiv Bators, Michael Monroe, & Patti Paladin.







February 25 1986 Johnny Thunders came to Buffalo, NY & me & 12 other friends had tickets. It was my first time in a Punk Club & what a wild experience that was. I was psyched because Johnny was a guitar hero to me despite his habits. I walked up to the bar early on to get a few drinks & I made some small talk with this real short guy who reminded me of Ronnie Wood while waiting for my drinks. I got back to my friends with a tray of drinks & one of my friends said “So you were standing next to Johnny at the Bar…” I was in shock I had no idea it was Thunders!! He was so short & couldn’t have been more than 5’4” !! We were all around the front row & the opening band The Kenmore Dolls took the stage & were wild as hell. The band was actually Green Jello using the Dolls name as a tribute to Johnny. They had to have about 8 members onstage & some were playing cardboard guitars as they played revved up cover versions of classic rock songs including “Freebird”. They started playing “Personality Crisis” & my one friend jumped up on the stage & the singer gave him the mic to sing it. The next song they did was “Sympathy for the Devil” & my friend dragged me up on the stage to sing the “Hoo Hoos”. Finally Johnny hit the stage & it was unbelievable as he opened with “Personality Crisis” from his Dolls days. His performance was everything I expected & more. He played a “Blame it On Mom” & “Endless Party” from his Que Sera album. He had an older guy come up & play Harmonica pretty badly on a couple of songs (He was probably his drug connection from the area!). It was great as he rocked out to a few covers throughout the night including “I Can Tell” (Bo Diddley), “Green Onions” (Booker T & the MG’s), “Midnight Hour” (Wilson Pickett), “Gloria” (Van Morrison), “Stepping Stone” (The Monkees), “Pipeline” (Chantays) & during his classic “Too Much Junkie Business” he inter twined “Pills” (Bo Diddley). In the middle of his set he stood alone onstage with his acoustic guitar & played “Joey” (Bob Dylan), “I Only Wrote This Song For You”, “Sad Vacation”, & “You Can’t Put Your Arms Around a Memory”.


Johnny’s next project was an album of cover songs done with punk singer Patti Paladin. ‘Copy Cats’ was released in 1988 & was a good album but Johnny only played guitar on one track so it was a bit disappointing in that aspect. He & Patti sang cover songs by artists such as the Shangri La’s, Roy Head, The Seeds, The Chambers Brothers, Screaming Jay Hawkins, Dion, & Elvis.



Johnny put together a new tight back-up band called the Oddballs & toured with them for the next couple of years doing quite well in Europe & the clubs in The US. By the end of 1990 Johnny remained clean for a while though he was on prescription methadone. His next goal in 1991 was to go down to New Orleans with a couple of his new bandmates & record a blues album with some New Orleans Blues musicians. First his band did another tour of Japan which went well & he made over 10 grand for those shows. He traveled to Germany to record a version of his classic Punk Anthem “Born To Lose” with German Punk Band Die Toten Hosen. The version of “Born to Lose” featured backing vocals by Punk legends Joey Ramone, Cheetah Chrome, Jayne County, Handsome Dick Manitoba, & a few others. The song came out phenomenal!



From Germany he flew to New Orleans where Johnny met his demise. Supposedly he was seen with 2 seedy characters going into his room. A lot of shouting & other noise went on & the next morning the front desk called Johnny about all the noise. He asked if he could come down & talk to them but that was the last they heard from him. That afternoon a cleaning lady discovered Johnny’s body curled up under a dresser. His room was left in disarray, items of his were stolen, an empty syringe was found in the toilet & all of his methadone boxes were emptied yet it wasn’t looked at as a crime scene by the police. His cause of death was listed as an overdose. They just looked at him as if he was just another junkie & he wouldn’t be missed so they stopped the investigation
 

LG

Fade To Black
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Posts
36,862
Reaction score
71
That is a really in depth account of one of your heroes Bucky.:clap:

Very tragic ending to his life, to be discarded like just another junkie by the authorities. I have never been a big fan of his or his band, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying reading about him.

Well done,,,as usual.:hab:
 

rtbuck

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Posts
2,385
Reaction score
69
Location
I live in Buffalo, NY
Thanks LG! Johnny's a strange one & it's weird because I've never touched an illegal drug in my life. With Johnny you(not you LG!) need 3 albums LAMF, So Alone, & Que Sera(The acoustic Hurt me album is okay too). The quality is pretty good & you can overlook his abuse. Most of his live albums are awful to the average listener & even sometimes a bit rough on my ears. It was tough going through clips on youtube because they're mostly live & awful. It's awful seeing how wasted he was on many of the clips on youtube
 

Death on Credit

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Posts
1,315
Reaction score
5
Location
Portland, OR
They just don't make 'em like Johnny anymore.

This is a great write up, and I have no idea what I could possibly add. Thunders is one of my all time favorite rock 'n roll musicians, and he died when I was 1. I wish that more of his stuff was in print of vinyl...I'd love to pick up So Alone and LAMF, as they're the two biggest holes in my collection. Hopefully they will be reissued soon, given the big vinyl resurgence and the current prominence of punk rock re-releases...I won't hold my breath though.
 

LOU/REALM

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Posts
6,787
Reaction score
60
Location
England
Great write up about a true legend !:tup: I love his sleazy trashy guitar style .....Johnny was a real innovator:grinthumb
The 2 guitarists in THE REALM Marc and Rob idolise him :bow:....with me not far behind.
L.A.M.F is a real gem of an album !!!......I also own the "copy cats" Lp....brilliant covers of some"old" classics.....crawfish is amazing :cheers2

Removed dead video
 

Sweaty

ThE OtHeR rAmOnE
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Posts
5,722
Reaction score
23
Location
Chesterfield, England
Great write up, I have his first album and very good it is too, so many interesting facts about him in this review, it really does make for interesting reading, thanks rtbuck:)
 

Death on Credit

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Posts
1,315
Reaction score
5
Location
Portland, OR
I received my vinyl copy of LAMF in the mail today (and So Alone should get here tomorrow). :bow:

It's funny, right after I posted here that I was having trouble finding them, I found reasonably priced copies of each online.
 

rtbuck

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Posts
2,385
Reaction score
69
Location
I live in Buffalo, NY
Thanks everyone!

Another album which is worth checking out (even though Johnny seems pretty wasted) is 'Stations of the Cross'. It's a live show which was filmed & recorded for a movie which still hasn't been officially released yet. The movie was supposed to be released while Johnny was still alive but the filmaker ran out of money & patience. It was to be a documentary of his junkie life. The film was finished after his death & is still being played at independent film festivals but nobody has picked up on it. I believe there are 3-5 different versions of it & it's titled 'Born to Lose;the last Rock & Roll Movie'. I have seen it & it's very dark & depressing. There are a lot of junkies interviewed throughout the film with Thunders stories including Dee Dee Ramone. The movie went into the weird circumstances of his death & it seemed to me that the late Willy Deville(who witnessed the authorities remove the body) may have known more about it than he said(just my opinion after seeing the film; he may have just been sick of being questioned about the death because he was staying across the street from Johnny's room at the time of Johnny's death).

Speaking of Johnny's death:

Alyne Pustanio who is a Paranormal researcher in Louisianna heard rumors of Johnny's spirit being at the guest room where he met his demise. On September 24, 2010 her team got the room Johnny died in & were going to investigate the room. They were on a podcast show that evening for a few minutes talking about it. Supposedly as soon as she got to the room a few strange happenings took place. She put a can of soda on an end table which was made of unfinished (rough) marble & when she reached for some money the can moved about 5 inches (she claimed their was no condensation on the table from the can) & she also had some kind of paranormal meter turned on in the room & when she put on "You Can't Put Your Arms Around a memory" (or as she called it You Can't hold Onto a Memory!) the meter's lights started blinking to his voice as if to say his spirit was singing along. That was about all she talked about Thunders but said after she was done as a guest on the podcast show they were going to start an in depth investigation & said she'd back on at a later date.

Her website Alyne Pustanio the Official Authority on New Orleans Paranormal Folklore & Occult Behavior - Louisiana Folklore Specialist - had a cool article surrounding his death:
"In April 1991, like so many musicians before him, Johnny Thunders drifted into New Orleans, coming to rest in a little out-of-the-way guest house on St. Peter Street where, on April 23rd, he died.

The death of Johnny Thunders is still surrounded in mystery and members of Johnny’s family remain unsatisfied to this day that the New Orleans Police and Coroner’s Departments did everything they could to solve the case. An autopsy would reveal that Johnny died of drug-related causes, but the circumstances surrounding his death were never made clear.

A known drug-addict, Thunders was undergoing methadone treatment at the time of his death and often traveled with a large supply of methadone. Yet it was reported that a large quantity of LSD had been found in his system at the time of the autopsy; this was a drug that Thunders didn’t like and rarely had used, according to those who knew him.

DeeDee Ramone of the Ramones is quoted in his book Poison Heart: Surviving the Ramones as saying that he had received a call on April 24th, the day after Thunders’ death, from a mutual friend who indicated that Thunders had gotten mixed up with “some bastards” in New Orleans, “some posers and drug dealers” who had dropped LSD on Thunders, stolen his methadone supply and anything else they could, and left him in his room to die.

Some of the facts bear out this assertion. Johnny’s room was ransacked and many of his belongings were missing including his passport, musical instruments, clothes and some make-up. Johnny had crawled – or been placed – under the low coffee table where rigor mortis had set in and frozen his emaciated body into a weird “pretzel-like” shape.

Local singer Willy Deville, who was living next door to the guest house at the time and gave plenty of interviews to the press, described the scene: “When he [Thunders] came out … rigor mortis had set in to such an extent that his body was in a U-shape. When you’re laying on the floor in a fetal position, doubled over, well, when the body bag came out, it was in a U. It was pretty awful.”

Additional autopsy findings only muddied the waters. The level of drugs found in Thunders’ system had not been enough to cause fatality, but foul play could not be ruled out. What was confirmed was that Thunders had been suffering from an advanced stage of leukemia, which explained his emaciated appearance but was not indicated as cause of death. Although there was no obvious evidence to support the finding, foul play could not be ruled out. In the end, Thunders’ death, what caused it and what occurred in the hours before he passed, may never be explained.

Johnny’s family, (Thunders was survived by his ex-wife Julie and four children, sons John Genzale, Vito Genzale, Dino Genzale, and daughter Jamie Genzale, Johnny's sister Maryann, and her husband Rusty) exasperated by the “laissez faire” attitude of the New Orleans authorities, whom they feel simply dismissed Thunders as just another musician “who crawled to New Orleans to die,” still search for answers. The original police reports on the case went missing, a coroner’s department employee was fired in the aftermath, and since Hurricane Katrina has very likely wiped out what documented evidence there might have been to help bring closure to the family, the death of Johnny Thunders is destined to remain one of the many mysteries of New Orleans."
 

Find member

Forum statistics

Threads
30,659
Posts
1,064,940
Members
6,353
Latest member
edmerka

Members online

No members online now.
Top