Indie Rock Education!

[Old Dude]

I knew you were going to say that. I searched all over the Internet for references to who first used the term Indie rock. There are none, at least none that I could find.

But you posted it anyway.

It appears to have originated in the UK, though.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the "Suits" is referring to the big music execs of the USA.

I cannot comment on who created Punk since that isn't a genre I am versed in.

As far as Progressive Rock goes, I'm not a cultural expert on the subject but I believe its origins go way back in the 60's. Which would make it a movement before the "Suits" had so much control over the music industry. In fact, I think even Bob Dylan has been classified as Progressive.

However, I do consider Progressive rock a legitimate and defined genre.

@joe is our member who is very knowledgeable on Progressive rock. I'm sure he could rattle off the origins and educate both of us.

When it comes to the naming of things, based on my education and career background in marketing communication, I am something of an expert on nomenclature. It's not just an issue of who said it first. Regardless of where a descriptive phrase came from, it's the suits who use the techniques of marketing communication to get their chosen label accepted and used. Maybe some disk jockey said it on the air, and it stuck. Maybe it was a writer for Rolling Stone or some other rag. As far as the precise origin of the phrase, I am both ignorant and apathetic. I don't know and I don't care. But I am 100% certain it was the marketing suits who seized on the term and made it stick. I am also 100% certain that it wasn't the musicians themselves who came up with the name for any of the genres.

Ponder this for a moment. Do you really think that some band was getting itself together and held a meeting and decided that they would henceforth refer to their music as "Indie Rock"? Or that they'd encourage their friends who had a similar musical sound to jump on the bandwagon and refer to themselves as such?

Or that the earliest rock pioneers who were combining rock with classical musical forms all got together at a convention and using Robert's Rules of Order passed a motion that henceforth they would call their genre "progressive rock"? Can you even imagine the guys from the Moody Blues, Pink Floyd, and all the other early progressive rock bands getting together for a convention to start a standards organization and pick a name for their genre? And don't kid yourself about the suits controlling everything, or when they got control. The suits were in charge of the music industry when records spun at 78 rpms.

And, yes, the "suits" are the non-musician executives who control all aspects of music marketing, including recordings, radio and other airplay venues, and live music venues. The really good ones aren't too terrible, but most of them really suck.

 

[Porch Monkey]

But you posted it anyway.



When it comes to the naming of things, based on my education and career background in marketing communication, I am something of an expert on nomenclature. It's not just an issue of who said it first. Regardless of where a descriptive phrase came from, it's the suits who use the techniques of marketing communication to get their chosen label accepted and used. Maybe some disk jockey said it on the air, and it stuck. Maybe it was a writer for Rolling Stone or some other rag. As far as the precise origin of the phrase, I am both ignorant and apathetic. I don't know and I don't care. But I am 100% certain it was the marketing suits who seized on the term and made it stick. I am also 100% certain that it wasn't the musicians themselves who came up with the name for any of the genres.

Ponder this for a moment. Do you really think that some band was getting itself together and held a meeting and decided that they would henceforth refer to their music as "Indie Rock"? Or that they'd encourage their friends who had a similar musical sound to jump on the bandwagon and refer to themselves as such?

Or that the earliest rock pioneers who were combining rock with classical musical forms all got together at a convention and using Robert's Rules of Order passed a motion that henceforth they would call their genre "progressive rock"? Can you even imagine the guys from the Moody Blues, Pink Floyd, and all the other early progressive rock bands getting together for a convention to start a standards organization and pick a name for their genre? And don't kid yourself about the suits controlling everything, or when they got control. The suits were in charge of the music industry when records spun at 78 rpms.

And, yes, the "suits" are the non-musician executives who control all aspects of music marketing, including recordings, radio and other airplay venues, and live music venues. The really good ones aren't too terrible, but most of them really suck.

So you're an (ex) suit! So it's all your fault! lol.

What are the alternatives to the "suits"? What alternative marketing methods are there? Who should be deciding on which genres we use? Who should decide what goes into each of those genres? Who should name these genres? We want solutions, not problems!

 

[Old Dude]

So you're an (ex) suit! So it's all your fault! lol.

What are the alternatives to the "suits"? What alternative marketing methods are there? Who should be deciding on which genres we use? Who should decide what goes into each of those genres? Who should name these genres? We want solutions, not problems!

Yes, I was a suit. But I marketed computer accessories. As for marketing methods, that's a grist for a bunch of other discussions. I'm just ranting about one small aspect of music marketing. The universe has worked just fine with a few, vague categories (or genres, if you prefer) that most people understand. They aren't perfect, and they don't need to be. I've said in this thread and others that I have no objections to a few sensible and useful categories. Rock, Soul, Rap, Country, Dance/Disco, Jazz, Pop, and maybe a few others are helpful. Subdividing the sensible categories into sub-categories and sub-sub-categories makes no sense. Likewise, artificial categories like "Indie Rock" or any of the way-too-many kinds of "alt'" this or that are a whole different thing.

Don't expect me to willingly get dragged into trying to defend something I never said.

If you feel the need to slice and dice music down to the "Progressive Indie Goth/Glam Industrial Hair Metal" level, I won't make any attempt to stop you. I also won't make any effort to go along with such folly.

As for solutions instead of problems, maybe you should study how medicine is practiced. One set of medical professionals examine patients and diagnose their problems. Then, the patient goes to a skilled specialist who has the expertise at finding a solution. Or consider engineering. One doesn't need to be a civil engineer to recognize that a bridge needs to be built over a river at a certain spot. But once the people responsible for traffic flow determine that the lack of a bridge is a problem, then they call in the engineers who know how to design and build bridges to solve the problem. Only someone who is excessively short-sighted would expect those who recognize a problem exists to also have the expertise to solve the problem. In fact, the last people to ask about whether or not a problem exists are those who make a career out of solving problems. That's why you never ask a barber if you need a haircut.

 

[Porch Monkey]

As for solutions instead of problems, maybe you should...

I don't need to do anything. You haven't convinced me yet that there's a problem which needs solving

 

[Old Dude]

I don't need to do anything. You haven't convinced me yet that there's a problem which needs solving

I was responding to this statement.

We want solutions, not problems!

I assumed that you were part of we.

I said what I said to support the premise that determining the existence of a problem is the first step towards finding a solution (if one even exists), and the fact that those who can identify a problem often aren't the people qualified to solve that problem.