Big 80's Production = Less Intelligence??

[Big Ears]

I don't have anything in music, never mind a degree. Indeed, I am musically inept. If my writing is full of unexplained jargon, it is just bad writing that is all. I thought I had explained my terms, but if not, to hell with it - I'm not going back through all that again.

Some things are very subjective and would be difficult to explain without further jargon. For example, I would find 'dramatic' in the context of music production difficult to further articulate, because it is a feeling based on a range of devices, like the build up of instruments, stacatto chords, use of echo, melodramatic lyrics, sound effects and the like. See what I mean?

Khor's point about live performances is a good one. If the material works well live, there is not much excuse for expecting people to pay good money for a sloppy production.

 

[Big Ears]

Some examples:

Yes Tor-mato. The whole album is overproduced and you can listen to anything at all, even the best songs are a mess. Rick Wakeman said it sounded as if it had been put through a blender:



I couldn't find examples of Utopia to illustrate what I meant. Compression is too much data on a disc (vinyl or CD). In Rundgren's case this is a stylistic device, but it can be used to give volume (as is also the case with Utopia). I'll look again later.

 

[METALPRIEST]

I feel kinda stupid reading this thread because I don't really know what you people are talking about.

Terms like "big production", lush production, overproduction, bright production, overdubbing, dramatic arrangements, compression, etc. Am I the only one here without a degree in music? ***:

What would be great is if someone could post 2 songs back to back to explain the difference between some of these styles. That is, if someone has time to do this.

Well let's go with the HEART example.

In the old days HEART was this



In the 80's they dabbled in that big 80's sound with empty arena style production. Is the music itself really worse because of it?

 

[LOU/REALM]

Heres another example of "Big" 80s production. Starting with the Excellent debut album by DEF LEPPARD in its NWOBHM glory...

..... a few years later Joe Elliott and the boys had rid their Sheffield accent for more American ones
I have got to say when I first heard "Photograph" I just couldn't believe it was the same band . It was VERY impressive...even I thought omg they want to sound like BOSTON ! But listen to the track...there is some great "intelligent "touches eg fine vocal harmonies etc
As with the case of HEART...yeah I really liked their 80s output

 

[Big Ears]

Def Leppard were produced by Mutt Lange, who previously worked with City Boy. Together City Boy, Lange and engineer Tim Friese-Green made sophisticated albums without the later eighties cliches. The problem was that Def Leppard were a deliberately primitive band to fit in with the NWOBHM trend (I am not suggesting they had no musical ability) and Lange was polishing a pebble. City Boy could be heavier than DL (Mike Slamer on guitar) and their multi-part harmonies were natural with three strong lead singers. Unfortunately, they did not sell many albums and I assume they were unknown in America, whereas Lange and DL wanted the big money. The lesson being, eighties production = loadsa money. Marrying Shania Twain in the nineties = even more money.

 

[Lynch]

Mutt Lange almost single-handedly changed the way rock was produced in the 80's. He had his fingers on the boards of a LOT of great albums during the decade, but what he did with Def Leppard's Pyromania album changed the way much of hard rock was recorded/produced for the next 10+ years. Of course, part of that also came with the songwriting style on that album, of which Lange co-wrote all 10 tracks with the other guys in the band.

 

[Khor1255]

And the absence of Pete Willis to farther the race toward bubblegum.

 

[Big Ears]

Willis brought the very average Joe Elliot into his band, only to be rewarded by being thrown out before they hit paydirt. I read somewhere he gave up playing and dabbled in property. Phil Collen, from the admittedly reasonable Girl, replaced him and set about keeping the excellent Viv Campbell in the shadows. Collen should have formed a band with Joe Lynn Turner and Campbell needs a good singer (his own voice is unlistenable).

 

[Aero]

Well let's go with the HEART example.

In the old days HEART was this



In the 80's they dabbled in that big 80's sound with empty arena style production. Is the music itself really worse because of it?

Ok, I think I can hear what you're talking about now. That 80s clip really does sound like they're playing in an empty arena. Weird...as I never noticed this effect before.

Barracuda sounds more raw, stripped down.

Incredible that you can turn a few knobs and get an entirely different sound.

 

[Khor1255]

The thing is, they go out of their way to get that 'polished' sound. For some types of music I can understand but I remember hearing a local band's recordings before and after they payed a lot of money in the studio and because this was a hard rock band the before sounded way better. I didn't want to be a killjoy but I had to let them know that even their mono condenser mic practice session recordings blew away the sound they got in the studio.
Too much control board tampering sterilizes the sound of a recording or like a friend of mine says 'takes away the live air'. Some guys really like that deafened almost numbed sound which was all the rage in the 80s. Some of us do not.

I think it might take a whole lot more work to make a good live act sound like crap than to just leave the musician's to make the recording and only engineer it to cover mistakes or bring out the contrast in different instruments.