Neil Young unveils his music player

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^^I disagree with you completely, so many digital 'knock off's' are pale imitations of the old analog it's easy to tell the difference no matter what DAC you are running. Although I do agree having a decent DAC does make a difference.

You could spend less than a $1000 on a turntable/cartridge/phono-stage pre-amp that would surpass any but the most expensive DAC's out there, more than one audiophile has commented that after updating their analog gear they enjoy it more the expensive DAC's they invested in.

Listen to Van Halen I on CD, then play the vinyl, no comparison at all, the vinyl has Eddie's 'growl' in all it's glory the digital is lacking that completely and it's one of the easiest tests I do when talking old vinyl vs CD's, the feel of the guitar sound. The vinyl will make the hair stand up on the back of my neck, the CD I listen and think..."How did they manage to lose Eddie's signature sound...:wtf: " (I have to say that not all the new 180 gram vinyl reissues are taken from the original analog tapes, there are a few labels who source a CD then make the vinyl from that, Music On Vinyl is one of the worst. I know I have a couple new pressings that sound like the CD so they weren't done from the proper source which is unforgivable.:nw: )

And I do have a nice DAC for my PC's, and a good amp and quality speakers/subwoofer as well.

The whole thing is why I have an axe to grind with Apple, and their i-pods. Instead of offering top quality they had no interest in that, they just wanted to make as much money as possible and even shafted more than one artist by not paying them the proper fees for distributing their music. If they had offered CD quality and then DVD/Blu Ray as things evolved then I would give them credit. Instead they offer i-tunes+...after being deluged with complaints about the crappy quality of their files.

I hope Neil finds a niche for his Pono, anything to help restore the balance in favour of quality is worth supporting.
 

coltrane2

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^^I disagree with you completely, so many digital 'knock off's' are pale imitations of the old analog it's easy to tell the difference no matter what DAC you are running. Although I do agree having a decent DAC does make a difference.

You could spend less than a $1000 on a turntable/cartridge/phono-stage pre-amp that would surpass any but the most expensive DAC's out there, more than one audiophile has commented that after updating their analog gear they enjoy it more the expensive DAC's they invested in.

Listen to Van Halen I on CD, then play the vinyl, no comparison at all, the vinyl has Eddie's 'growl' in all it's glory the digital is lacking that completely and it's one of the easiest tests I do when talking old vinyl vs CD's, the feel of the guitar sound. The vinyl will make the hair stand up on the back of my neck, the CD I listen and think..."How did they manage to lose Eddie's signature sound...:wtf: " (I have to say that not all the new 180 gram vinyl reissues are taken from the original analog tapes, there are a few labels who source a CD then make the vinyl from that, Music On Vinyl is one of the worst. I know I have a couple new pressings that sound like the CD so they weren't done from the proper source which is unforgivable.:nw: )

And I do have a nice DAC for my PC's, and a good amp and quality speakers/subwoofer as well.

The whole thing is why I have an axe to grind with Apple, and their i-pods. Instead of offering top quality they had no interest in that, they just wanted to make as much money as possible and even shafted more than one artist by not paying them the proper fees for distributing their music. If they had offered CD quality and then DVD/Blu Ray as things evolved then I would give them credit. Instead they offer i-tunes+...after being deluged with complaints about the crappy quality of their files.

I hope Neil finds a niche for his Pono, anything to help restore the balance in favour of quality is worth supporting.

Interesting debate. Having heard VH I on both vinyl and remastered CD I'd personally question whether the guitar growl you're hearing is the warmth of vinyl distortion? Then again who am I to say what you're hearing or not hearing!

My point is that there's a massive gulf in Mp3 quality based on the size of the file and transferral system and it's too easy to pay little attention to those source variables and conclude that computer storage cannot bring music to life, which is incorrect and based on non-musical emotive and nostalgia-driven values. The system I have at the minute is the most balanced I've ever had and it's based completely on Mp3, AAC and Apple Lossless. This is even compared to my old Arcam and Tannoy system that is languishing in my old house.

I'm currently spinning Elton John's Don't Shoot Me I'm Only The Piano Player, which sounds toppy and lacking in life through my system, I checked out the file size and lo and behold it's a file I downloaded at 128kbps Mp3. Play this next to an Apple Lossless version of Dire Straits' Brothers In Arms and the difference is night and day. The latter is a reference point for clear, unfettered musical conversion. Play the same on high quality vinyl through a good system and it'll sound great but with the addition of unscheduled clicks, pops and like somebody is frying chips in the background.

I love vinyl but for me there is no intrinsically 'better' medium in terms of sound fidelity. And Mp3 allows me to store my 3,000 album collection in a Mac the size of a shoe box.
 

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^^Most of what you are saying is really not even the issue. IF (and that's a bif IF) music is being captured correctly and stored electronically at the highest quality file rates... then yes it can reproduce great sound. whether or not it's better than vinyl is a narrower debate.

as far as what VH 1 says, you can question all you want. Vinyl will out perform CD format.

The issue is the quality of what by and large folks like apple has been selling. they took huge liberties and got away with it because they got the title wave moving so fast that it couldn't be stopped. Think about it.... a large file would not had download so fast and you would not have fit so many of them on the device that they sold. as far licensing goes they took a "oh yeah prove it come and get me attitude" knowing the title wave would move faster than any litigation.

they didn't care what the quality was they just turned up the volume on the recording.

There is nothing wrong with liking and preferring MP3, computer and iTunes etc. etc. etc. I don't knock anyone who does. but non factual arguments about how the human ear can't hear more than is stored in an mp3 file is bunk. and frankly it isn't even the issue anyway the issue is elsewhere in the science.

So love digital listen to it, embrace it.. it offers a lot vinyl and tape never are going to. but it is what it is unless the consumer demands quality.

Jim
 
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coltrane2

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^^Most of what you are saying is really not even the issue. IF (and that's a bif IF) music is being captured correctly and stored electronically at the highest quality file rates... then yes it can reproduce great sound. whether or not it's better than vinyl is a narrower debate.

as far as what VH 1 says, you can question all you want. Vinyl will out perform CD format.

The issue is the quality of what by and large folks like apple has been selling. they took huge liberties and got away with it because they got the title wave moving so fast that it couldn't be stopped. Think about it.... a large file would not had download so fast and you would not have fit so many of them on the device that they sold. as far licensing goes they took a "oh yeah prove it come and get me attitude" knowing the title wave would move faster than any litigation.

they didn't care what the quality was they just turned up the volume on the recording.

There is nothing wrong with liking and preferring MP3, computer and iTunes etc. etc. etc. I don't knock anyone who does. but non factual arguments about how the human ear can't hear more than is stored in an mp3 file is bunk. and frankly it isn't even the issue anyway the issue is elsewhere in the science.

So love digital listen to it, embrace it.. it offers a lot vinyl and tape never are going to. but it is what it is unless the consumer demands quality.

Jim
If we're talking facts, Steve Jobs was an audiophile and a massive supporter of higher quality files and another fact is that iTunes files have now been increased to a standard 256kbps, directly in response to accusations of low-fi library transferral. Check the facts.
 

coltrane2

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If we're talking facts, Steve Jobs was an audiophile and a massive supporter of higher quality files and another fact is that iTunes files have now been increased to a standard 256kbps, directly in response to accusations of low-fi library transferral. Check the facts.

...and what litigation exactly are you talking about? This isn't Napster, Apple paid for music licenses. And if we're blaming Apple for the evils of the world, what exactly do you think would have "saved" the music industry? Certainly not the record companies that Apple beat to the game. Am not sure what argument you are supporting.
 

mrJim

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coltrane2; Jobs discussions with musicians and support and encouragement of quality isn't new. has nothing to do with what was commented on. Jobs had interest in and listened to Vinyl. still not relevant.

As it relates to quality, it's fine that you set the standard at 256kbp. go ahead, your welcome to. Me I want more

Like I said before Digital will and does do what Vinyl never will be able to. So everyone should enjoys the best possible quality that still allows them the portability simplicity Digital delivers.

Jim
 
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