Honor and Sportsmanship...have we lost it? - Page 3

**eberg15101** · 08-10-2010, 03:02 PM

I have a theory about the obvious lack of respect for the game(s), officials, and other players, and the reason some of these, what I find to be ridiculous, rules is because of arrogance, a bit because of the players being younger when they start, but that can also be blamed on the high schools or colleges... It's sometimes hard to blame them for becoming arrogant too, which inflates their heads and creates that lack of respect.. If you throw 400 millions dollars at a kid out of high school... and make entire cities absoultely worship him(which is also a part to blame.. Sports are great, and I love seeing the teams I want to win, win, but they have become too important in our society... just look around Pittsburgh on any given Sunday).. of course a 20 year old kid is going to get an inflated head and probably have a very warped sense of right and wrong...

**Lord Grendel** · 08-10-2010, 03:08 PM

^^You are right EB, there is something inherently wrong with a society that pays athletes enormous amounts of money and yet researchers, doctors, scientists working on the Really important things get much less and hardly any acclaim.

The NFL is going to install a Rookie salary cap after the lock out next year. When a rookie and his agent can arrange a contract that pays Sam Bradford more than Tom Brady or Peyton Manning then something is broken.

Also these kids should at least learn the basics of how to manage your money, putting together a posse' and going to strip clubs is not much of a legacy to leave after you are done playing. I read a staggering statistic on the life after football of many star players, they end up broke, with health issues and pretty much back in the same neighborhood they grew up in with the same group of friends, except the money train has ended.

Very sad state of affairs.(There are some really high quality people as well, don't want it to seem too one sided but not enough professional athletes give back to the community. Also it is the owners fault that the money has gotten out of hand, and you can't blame the players when stupidity at the highest levels of the league routinely offer way more to a player than he's worth sometimes just to keep him off a rivals roster.)

**eberg15101** · 08-10-2010, 03:26 PM

I think I read a story on Yahoo about an NBA player that was injured and is now homeless, living in a broken down car somewhere in New Jersey, maybe.. I even see it in my, well not anymore, but the local high school, with the athletes.. these kids can hardly spell their own last names, and somehow they manage to be passed through so they can play varsity.. Also, I can not even begin to describe to you the amount of things they get away with as well.. Pulling a knife on someone, beating the hell out of someone with a sledge hammer over pot, possession with intent to sell.. on school grounds, getting caught snorting coke before practice, telling teachers to "Go f*** themselves" on a day to day basis.. yet somehow.. they are all still in school(when they chose to be) and on the sport teams with no suspensions or any disciplinary actions... once again the inflated ego..

**Lord Grendel** · 08-10-2010, 03:32 PM

^^Yes it is a sad state of affairs EB, and I think it is ridiculous that one group of students is held to a high standard while kids with talent in athletics get a free pass and free ride all the way to the professional ranks.

And I was a talented athlete myself, and a fearsome competitor but I got A's all through my school years, my parents would not accept anything less and if I slipped on the academics they wouldn't allow me to play sports. That is what the ridiculous amount of money has done to the schools and the sports programs.

**eberg15101** · 08-10-2010, 03:58 PM

Agreed.. When I wrestled, I was OK.. won some, lost most

I had my parents and coaches on my ass about grades and getting in trouble constantly.. the kid I gave the example of snorting lines before practice on the other hand failed plenty of classes, set a record for most detentions received in one day for that year in school, once even beat up his own team mate.. I mean no one liked the kid he kicked the crap out of, but still... he's a team mate.. And the reason he never had any consequences?.. He won states every year...

**Lord Grendel** · 08-10-2010, 04:04 PM

^^And that my friend sums up what is wrong in society in general, winners get a free ticket to do whatever they want, because Winning is everything nothing else matters.

I see no end in sight, in fact the convulsions taking place in Div. 1 college football are ruining it. Again it's all about the money and the football coaches and their programs want their own league without NCAA oversight. That way they can keep most of the money they make without supporting other sports in their schools. Tragic and the end result of all this, a few superstar athletes with more money than brains who end up almost as bad as they started out. Success story...? I think not.

Aktivator · 08-10-2010, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Grendel

^^Have to disagree with you AK, in fact this year for the first time ever the NFL is forcing teams and players to obey the concussion rule. There are countless thousands of retired college and professional football players who will be suffering for the rest of their lives for the wear and tear of playing the game they love. Until they come up with a new helmet or coach the players from Pop Warner to high school, college and the pros that leading with your helmet is not going to be acceptable anymore.

I have watched football since the 60's and of course there were always hard hits, but nothing on the scale of what we see in today's game. The object was supposed to be to tackle the guy hard, dust yourself off afterward go back to the huddle and run the next play. Now it's all about hitting them with the intent to injure at least that is my opinion.

I've been watching football since the early 70's and will disagree. Today, you can't even hit players head on with out getting a flag espiecally the quarterback. players in the 70's and 80's destroyed quarterbacks and wide receivers in the good old days plus cheap shots were common. Players might hit harder today due to size and speed which has increased because of training but I see alot more clean hits today then just a few years ago. SUre there are some guys still doing it but its less in my eyes.

Don't get me started on the offense and defensive lines. Those guys threw punches, kicks and god knows what on the ground let alone the chop block, they can't get away with that stuff anymore. Didn't some player in the 70's get caught with those metal hand guards? You hear more about concussions today because back in the day you played there was no such thing as you have a concusion. You tried to sit out and you were kicked off the team and called names in the locker room. They played with all types of injuries today guys don't do that. I was a season ticket holder for the NY Giants from the 70s to the late 90's I saw plenty plus I've got a few clients that were former NFL players.

Don't get me wrong I agree players can most likely hit harder but the rules keep making it harder to do the things they once did.

**Lord Grendel** · 08-10-2010, 07:25 PM

I still disagree with you the speed and size alone have made the physics of modern football more catastrophic than ever before. I have never seen so many blatant attempts to injure as I have in the last ten years. It's all about "Destroying" your opponent and getting that Youtube highlight. The respect for the game and the other teams players is at an all time low, and it's in Hockey as well.

Explain UFC's popularity for me AK? I am at a loss why the 20-30 year olds are infatuated with men beating each other to a pulp for entertainment...

It is a symptom of our more violent age, movies, video games, sports it's all about harder faster more violent than ever before.

The NFL realizes there are a host of lawsuits coming down the line so they are finally getting ahead on this issue. Oh and a few years ago the old veterans you referred to tried to get a pension increase and the owners agreed to put more money in...but the stumbling block was the active players they didn't want to give more money to the old vets that helped build the game they are flourishing in now. As I said the money in today's sports is ruining all of them, from high school to the pros it's all about the big money and to hell with teammates and sportsmanship.

Vic2010 · 08-11-2010, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by Lord Grendel

Explain UFC's popularity for me ? I am at a loss why the 20-30 year olds are infatuated with men beating each other to a pulp for entertainment. ... It is a symptom of our more violent age, movies, video games, sports it's all about harder faster more violent than ever before.

I think you answered your own question. But I think the reason why MMA/UFC is so popular is because boxing is pretty much dead. It might just be my own perception but that's what I think. Queensbury Rules boxing hasn't been popular in the US for decades now. Every now and then you might get some lightweight bouts that look sexy but if you want to see the fights they're on pay-per-view. I noticed that heavyweight boxing became a joke after all the drama (in and out of the ring) that Mike Tyson caused. Boxing's never been the same since then. The casual fan stopped caring.

MMA is everywhere now. It's more free form and doesn't have the restrictions that regular boxing has. Basically, I see Mixed Martial Arts as the evolution of boxing into something else. Hand to hand combat (as a sport) will always be popular. I understand why it's popular. Do I like it? Not really. I got into it for a couple months after football season ended. I got into some of the personalities and stuff but overall I find the sport to be brutal and barbaric. I'm surprised guys don't get killed regularly. The pounding these guys take is unreal.

**Lord Grendel** · 08-11-2010, 08:39 AM

This will be next I fear Vic.

Aktivator · 08-11-2010, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Lord Grendel

I still disagree with you the speed and size alone have made the physics of modern football more catastrophic than ever before. I have never seen so many blatant attempts to injure as I have in the last ten years. It's all about "Destroying" your opponent and getting that Youtube highlight. The respect for the game and the other teams players is at an all time low, and it's in Hockey as well. .

I guess we are watching a diferent game, I would say the complete opposite. Don't bring hockey into the equation that is a whole other subject and I would mostly agree with you. Football is different and the rule changes alone make it cleaner.

Originally Posted by Lord Grendel

Explain UFC's popularity for me AK? I am at a loss why the 20-30 year olds are infatuated with men beating each other to a pulp for entertainment...

It is a symptom of our more violent age, movies, video games, sports it's all about harder faster more violent than ever before..

Do't mix other sports and the violent age in with football. I completely agree with all what your saying here but football rules have changed the game. I'm sorry I guess you don't believe me when I talk about guys punching the living daylights out of each other on the ground. That players played with concusions, the chop block, receivers that came across the middle not only got hit but beat up and told you don't do that in my house. Coachs put bounties on player etc. -you can't do this stuff now.

The NFL realizes there are a host of lawsuits coming down the line so they are finally getting ahead on this issue. Oh and a few years ago the old veterans you referred to tried to get a pension increase and the owners agreed to put more money in...but the stumbling block was the active players they didn't want to give more money to the old vets that helped build the game they are flourishing in now. As I said the money in today's sports is ruining all of them, from high school to the pros it's all about the big money and to hell with teammates and sportsmanship.

I completely agree that players today are disrespectful, greedy, spoiled brats and money is ruining sports but I'm not biting on the football players play a dirtier game it's just not true IMHO. Maybe in high school and younger because I don't see those games I'm a pro and a little bit college guy.

Vic2010 · 08-11-2010, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Lord Grendel

This will be next I fear Vic.

There's a lot of Asian martial arts that involves sword fighting (with restrictions obviously. They aren't gonna let them turn each other into sushi

). I think the reason why martial arts will always be popular among many people is because it's the purest form of competition between two human beings. But even in Asian Martial Arts there's honor and sportsmanship.
Another reason why I think MMA is so popular is because it's got the WWE/WWF atmosphere, but the blood, and punching/kicking is all real. I'm surprised MMA hasn't just wiped out wrestling (or Rasslin') altogether.

**Lord Grendel** · 08-11-2010, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by Aktivator

I guess we are watching a diferent game, I would say the complete opposite. Don't bring hockey into the equation that is a whole other subject and I would mostly agree with you. Football is different and the rule changes alone make it cleaner.

Do't mix other sports and the violent age in with football. I completely agree with all what your saying here but football rules have changed the game. I'm sorry I guess you don't believe me when I talk about guys punching the living daylights out of each other on the ground. That players played with concusions, the chop block, receivers that came across the middle not only got hit but beat up and told you don't do that in my house. Coachs put bounties on player etc. -you can't do this stuff now.

I completely agree that players today are disrespectful, greedy, spoiled brats and money is ruining sports but I'm not biting on the football players play a dirtier game it's just not true IMHO. Maybe in high school and younger because I don't see those games I'm a pro and a little bit college guy.

I have seen the same things as you have, but the sheer force of the hits to the head and other things are more vicious now than they ever were back in the 70's and 80's. I do agree the league has cracked down the last couple of years, but until they change the style of helmet and techniques then catastrophic injuries and shortened life expectancy are going to continue.(If you are right then why is the NFL fast tracking the head injury policy? Because it's going to be a Huge deal in a few years and cost a great deal of money, I give them credit for finally acknowledging the obvious and taking steps to try and protect the players now.)

And as far as Hockey goes, I was just using it as another example of how the "Destroy your opponent" philosophy has replaced the code of honor that most players used to adhere to. After all everyone playing has to realize what goes around comes around. Players in many sports seem more interested in hurting their opponent than ever before and the rules have been updated as a direct result along with suspensions and fines.

I just don't see things the same as you do AK, but that is fine different strokes for different folks.

Anyway I was watching PTI on ESPN the other day and it appears that Lance Armstrong's attorney's are crying foul. Apparently the government agency investigating "Doping" allegations are offering sweet incentives to teammates and officials who were part of Lance's amazing Tour de France run. I am ambivalent to all this, I would not be surprised if he did cheat. He used to go visit the same "Specialist MD" that many other top stars did and eventually got caught out cheating the system. In bike racing there have been so many champions that have admitted cheating that it almost seems like a level playing field, that if you are in the top ten of the sport and all your rivals are doing it then it sort of evens out. It is too bad I consider the Tour de France to be one of the most arduous sporting events in the world by far and doping just tarnishes it.

I don't think Lance will admit to it no matter how many people testify and offer evidence, he seems to cling to the belief the only thing he was ever on..."is my bike".

**Lord Grendel** · 10-06-2010, 08:11 PM

So it has happened again, Alberto Contador the reigning Tour de France champion has tested positive not once but twice for a banned substance. The first one he claimed was due to the "Spanish" steak he had eaten for supper during the race. That is a hilarious excuse and a new one on me, but then a couple of days ago another test came back positive. It's getting to the point now that everyone who wins a major cycling event almost certainly is cheating, the list of former champions that were caught or admitted it after retiring is proof of the "Win at all Costs" approach these athletes are taking. I like watching the Tour de France, but I think I will give up now it just pisses me off that they keep on cheating to get that little advantage over their peers, who are probably also cheating.

Legalize everything but make it an "In House" policy, no cyclist can see any other doctor except those working for the UCI or whatever other body they want to oversee everything, allow them to dope and use EPO and anything else they want and make sure everyone else has access to it as well. If you are caught seeing your own physician or team doctors you are suspended for the year.

That is the only way to restore any kind of level playing field to an event that I feel is one of the most awe inspiring competitions we have in sports period.

ComfortablyNumb · 11-14-2010, 08:13 PM

I have to say last night Pac Man was really showing some sportsmanship by trying to have the fight stopped because he was just destroying Margirito badly, but Margirito did not want to stop the fight he wanted to continue.

Great fight and Pac Man proved he can fight the bigger and more powerful guys and still come out on top.